Participant: How is the matter of suffering according to the viewpoint of the Self-Realized One?
Marcos Gualberto: You have to differentiate suffering from pain. Generally, in the mind you interpret all pain as suffering, but pain is physical, whereas suffering is psychological.
Thought does not produce physical pain, but rather psychological pain, which is suffering. This is what the “sense of person” carries. Physical pain can be treated, while psychological pain, suffering, is endless, is linked to the mind’s nature.
In fact, the right thing to say here is that the mind will never stop producing psychological pain. In other words, the mind will never stop suffering, as this is its nature. Why do I say that? Because the mind has this profile, this dualistic nature. It will never fail to experience pain, for the simple reason it lives in a world of opposites, of contrasts. This way, pleasure is the other side of this pain.
Participant: Master, is every emotional pain a suffering? Even when it is due to an immediate response to the environment, such as a loss, for example?
Marcos Gualberto: Your body has a self-protection system. The body translates an attack, a violation, an incision, a cut, an injury into pain. This is related to this defense system of the organism, this living mechanism. It is natural. But when you lose someone, it is not like that. You say: "Even when it is an immediate response to the environment.” In what sense do you apply the word "environment"? Because losing someone only represents an immediate response to a purely psychological environment. The matter of losing someone can only be placed psychologically, and of course, connected to an emotional pain.
Then, you ask: "Is every emotional pain a suffering?" That is evident! Any psychological pain, apart from this physical, neurophysiological pain, is suffering. Only the psychological sense of a "me" experiences suffering and this "environment," that is purely sentimental, emotional.
So, where is your suffering? It is in the “sense of me,” in this “sense of being someone,” moving within this “environment” of relationships with objects – be it inanimate objects, such as the carpet in your living room or the car you drive; or living objects, such as your child, grandchild, husband or boyfriend. Every relation the mind has involves objects, as it always sees itself as the subject, as the "central Sun" of this "cosmos," of this "universe."
The curious thing is that the word "cosmos" means beauty or beautiful in Greek, but there is no "cosmos" in this mind’s world. All the ego experiences is suffering, because every ego’s experience concerns its relation with duality, with separateness. You will never be free of suffering as long as you remain in the illusion of seeing yourself as an entity separate from the experience. As long as you see yourself in a relationship with something, that is an action between two things, suffering will be present.
Life is not happening in this format. This is imaginary, created by a presumption, by an assumption. The assumption is: "me and the world" or "me and others.” When a violation seems to happen in this “cosmos,” in this “universe,” which is when the object of this subject (being the subject this “me”) is removed, be it in the case of death or separation, this “me” will resent him or herself for not being happy due to the lack of fulfillment provided by that missing object – and here the object means others.
Notice the mind does not enjoy losing, but it enjoys winning, as it provides the mind the sensation of fulfillment, of importance, of validation, of classification. When the mind acquires much or everything it desires, it has what we call as "success." So, winning is success and losing is failure. In our culture, we appreciate successful people, because they represent what, in the ego, we want to be: someone who conquers things. But here, we are faced with the situation I just talked about. The nature of the mind is to live in duality, so it seeks success, because success is winning. However, it will always experience losses too, that means suffering to the mind.
That way, by examining that closely, you will find out winning is also suffering, since everything you gain, you lose. If you have a husband, one day he will go away, he will die. If you have a child, one day the child dies or leaves home and you will not have that child anymore. Everything you acquire, in this "sense of being someone owning something,” typical of the mind, will be lost at some point. It is an illusion to believe there will be no suffering! As long as the mind is present, there will be suffering. The mind will always experience suffering!
To live in this duality, in this suffering, in the mind, confined into this “sense of person” has become very common among us, the so-called “human beings.”
Participant: Master, you destroy everything!
Marcos Gualberto: Only what has no structure can be destroyed. What is not solid may fall, what has no reality may disappear, what is not firm may fall. In the mind, the world is fictional, a world without real stability. There is no Truth in the mind! Your whole psychological world is fake, a fraud! Your thoughts, emotions, perceptions and sensations can be translated, analyzed and interpreted. This is all part of something unstable! Only your Being cannot be “knocked down,” only your Essential Nature cannot “fall.” Your Essential Nature is not "keeping Itself in balance," is not subject to "fall," because It is not part of the mind nor of your world.
So, what is suffering? Suffering is an interpretation of pure resistance to the way life is being presented at this moment. You cannot forget Life does not take your story into consideration. Never mistake Life for the story.
Life is not the mankind’s story, nor the private story of this “me” you believe to be. Life does not consider this story that relevant, but the ego does not see it this way; the ego feels itself important. "Important" in a negative way, in what you call as "low self-esteem" or in a positive way, in what you call as "high self-esteem." In a very special way, the ego feels itself important. Everything is happening to the ego, but the ego does not take into account that Life does not see it, does not notice it. The ego does not consider itself as unreal!
There is certainly no lack of people revolted with Life in the world, with what happens, as if Life were happening to them - but Life does not see them, does not take their stories into account. Sometimes, Life interrupts a project, destroys an objective, a dream. Since Life does not take your idealism, your imagination into account, It just happens and destroys all that, and your ego gets outraged, as if it were being betrayed, deceived, deluded. All self-projection! It is the illusion of that "me" in its private world.
You say: "Your speech destroys everything!" No, my speech says there is nothing. If something is being broken, it is only the illusion.
Participant: I have a huge ego, I am snobbish and arrogant! Nobody can stand me, but it is my fault, since there are no others and I am not here, I am a mere illusion!
Marcos Gualberto: If it is a mere illusion, whose is this huge ego, snobbish and full of pride? Who is this unbearable little creature? Who is this creature that says, “It's my fault! There are no others and I am not here, this is a mere illusion,” a set of thoughts, that's all! It is just an image the thought creates about itself, assigning a present entity to it, to this image with a name.
Even considering yourself with a huge ego is a big consideration. Not everyone is snobbish, is it? Not everyone is superb and not everyone feels guilty. It seems that, somehow, the illusion of this false identity always feels itself important, whether in self-depreciation or self-appreciation. All fantasy! Here we have to investigate the illusory nature of the mind and to discover there is no entity present in this experience.
Observing the illusory nature of the mind is not self-analysis, not self-examination nor self-reflection. Observing the illusory nature of the mind is possible because the Nature of Consciousness is pure Observation, without choices, without naming, without self-classification, without self-importance, without self-depreciation, without self-analysis, without self-examination. The Nature of Consciousness is Being, something simple and natural, without the illusion of this idea of a “me,” that separates itself in order to analyze, to examine and to discover who it is.
So, my purpose in these meetings is for you to discover the truth of the mind's illusion. You are not the mind, you are nothing the mind is producing. You are not the body, you are not the story, you are not the winner nor the loser, you are not the one who was born nor the one who is going to die, you are not the one who “believes in something” nor the one who is skeptical.
Participant: Master, you are Love!
Marcos Gualberto: Love is the Nature of Consciousness, the Nature of Being; Love is You. You are not the nature of the mind, you are not the nature of the "me." Understand this! You are the Nature of Being, which is Love, Wisdom, Intelligence, Truth, Real Beauty ... the Cosmos!
Marcos Gualberto: You have to differentiate suffering from pain. Generally, in the mind you interpret all pain as suffering, but pain is physical, whereas suffering is psychological.
Thought does not produce physical pain, but rather psychological pain, which is suffering. This is what the “sense of person” carries. Physical pain can be treated, while psychological pain, suffering, is endless, is linked to the mind’s nature.
In fact, the right thing to say here is that the mind will never stop producing psychological pain. In other words, the mind will never stop suffering, as this is its nature. Why do I say that? Because the mind has this profile, this dualistic nature. It will never fail to experience pain, for the simple reason it lives in a world of opposites, of contrasts. This way, pleasure is the other side of this pain.
Participant: Master, is every emotional pain a suffering? Even when it is due to an immediate response to the environment, such as a loss, for example?
Marcos Gualberto: Your body has a self-protection system. The body translates an attack, a violation, an incision, a cut, an injury into pain. This is related to this defense system of the organism, this living mechanism. It is natural. But when you lose someone, it is not like that. You say: "Even when it is an immediate response to the environment.” In what sense do you apply the word "environment"? Because losing someone only represents an immediate response to a purely psychological environment. The matter of losing someone can only be placed psychologically, and of course, connected to an emotional pain.
Then, you ask: "Is every emotional pain a suffering?" That is evident! Any psychological pain, apart from this physical, neurophysiological pain, is suffering. Only the psychological sense of a "me" experiences suffering and this "environment," that is purely sentimental, emotional.
So, where is your suffering? It is in the “sense of me,” in this “sense of being someone,” moving within this “environment” of relationships with objects – be it inanimate objects, such as the carpet in your living room or the car you drive; or living objects, such as your child, grandchild, husband or boyfriend. Every relation the mind has involves objects, as it always sees itself as the subject, as the "central Sun" of this "cosmos," of this "universe."
The curious thing is that the word "cosmos" means beauty or beautiful in Greek, but there is no "cosmos" in this mind’s world. All the ego experiences is suffering, because every ego’s experience concerns its relation with duality, with separateness. You will never be free of suffering as long as you remain in the illusion of seeing yourself as an entity separate from the experience. As long as you see yourself in a relationship with something, that is an action between two things, suffering will be present.
Life is not happening in this format. This is imaginary, created by a presumption, by an assumption. The assumption is: "me and the world" or "me and others.” When a violation seems to happen in this “cosmos,” in this “universe,” which is when the object of this subject (being the subject this “me”) is removed, be it in the case of death or separation, this “me” will resent him or herself for not being happy due to the lack of fulfillment provided by that missing object – and here the object means others.
Notice the mind does not enjoy losing, but it enjoys winning, as it provides the mind the sensation of fulfillment, of importance, of validation, of classification. When the mind acquires much or everything it desires, it has what we call as "success." So, winning is success and losing is failure. In our culture, we appreciate successful people, because they represent what, in the ego, we want to be: someone who conquers things. But here, we are faced with the situation I just talked about. The nature of the mind is to live in duality, so it seeks success, because success is winning. However, it will always experience losses too, that means suffering to the mind.
That way, by examining that closely, you will find out winning is also suffering, since everything you gain, you lose. If you have a husband, one day he will go away, he will die. If you have a child, one day the child dies or leaves home and you will not have that child anymore. Everything you acquire, in this "sense of being someone owning something,” typical of the mind, will be lost at some point. It is an illusion to believe there will be no suffering! As long as the mind is present, there will be suffering. The mind will always experience suffering!
To live in this duality, in this suffering, in the mind, confined into this “sense of person” has become very common among us, the so-called “human beings.”
Participant: Master, you destroy everything!
Marcos Gualberto: Only what has no structure can be destroyed. What is not solid may fall, what has no reality may disappear, what is not firm may fall. In the mind, the world is fictional, a world without real stability. There is no Truth in the mind! Your whole psychological world is fake, a fraud! Your thoughts, emotions, perceptions and sensations can be translated, analyzed and interpreted. This is all part of something unstable! Only your Being cannot be “knocked down,” only your Essential Nature cannot “fall.” Your Essential Nature is not "keeping Itself in balance," is not subject to "fall," because It is not part of the mind nor of your world.
So, what is suffering? Suffering is an interpretation of pure resistance to the way life is being presented at this moment. You cannot forget Life does not take your story into consideration. Never mistake Life for the story.
Life is not the mankind’s story, nor the private story of this “me” you believe to be. Life does not consider this story that relevant, but the ego does not see it this way; the ego feels itself important. "Important" in a negative way, in what you call as "low self-esteem" or in a positive way, in what you call as "high self-esteem." In a very special way, the ego feels itself important. Everything is happening to the ego, but the ego does not take into account that Life does not see it, does not notice it. The ego does not consider itself as unreal!
There is certainly no lack of people revolted with Life in the world, with what happens, as if Life were happening to them - but Life does not see them, does not take their stories into account. Sometimes, Life interrupts a project, destroys an objective, a dream. Since Life does not take your idealism, your imagination into account, It just happens and destroys all that, and your ego gets outraged, as if it were being betrayed, deceived, deluded. All self-projection! It is the illusion of that "me" in its private world.
You say: "Your speech destroys everything!" No, my speech says there is nothing. If something is being broken, it is only the illusion.
Participant: I have a huge ego, I am snobbish and arrogant! Nobody can stand me, but it is my fault, since there are no others and I am not here, I am a mere illusion!
Marcos Gualberto: If it is a mere illusion, whose is this huge ego, snobbish and full of pride? Who is this unbearable little creature? Who is this creature that says, “It's my fault! There are no others and I am not here, this is a mere illusion,” a set of thoughts, that's all! It is just an image the thought creates about itself, assigning a present entity to it, to this image with a name.
Even considering yourself with a huge ego is a big consideration. Not everyone is snobbish, is it? Not everyone is superb and not everyone feels guilty. It seems that, somehow, the illusion of this false identity always feels itself important, whether in self-depreciation or self-appreciation. All fantasy! Here we have to investigate the illusory nature of the mind and to discover there is no entity present in this experience.
Observing the illusory nature of the mind is not self-analysis, not self-examination nor self-reflection. Observing the illusory nature of the mind is possible because the Nature of Consciousness is pure Observation, without choices, without naming, without self-classification, without self-importance, without self-depreciation, without self-analysis, without self-examination. The Nature of Consciousness is Being, something simple and natural, without the illusion of this idea of a “me,” that separates itself in order to analyze, to examine and to discover who it is.
So, my purpose in these meetings is for you to discover the truth of the mind's illusion. You are not the mind, you are nothing the mind is producing. You are not the body, you are not the story, you are not the winner nor the loser, you are not the one who was born nor the one who is going to die, you are not the one who “believes in something” nor the one who is skeptical.
Participant: Master, you are Love!
Marcos Gualberto: Love is the Nature of Consciousness, the Nature of Being; Love is You. You are not the nature of the mind, you are not the nature of the "me." Understand this! You are the Nature of Being, which is Love, Wisdom, Intelligence, Truth, Real Beauty ... the Cosmos!
*Online meeting transcription, originally held on September 18, 2020 - First published in Portuguese on October 10, 2020. For further information about our meetings, please click here.
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