GC: Hello everyone! We are here for another videocast. Hello, everyone! We're here for another videocast. Once again, Master Gualberto has kindly joined us. Thank you, Master! Master, today, in addition to bringing some questions from the people who have been following our videocasts, I would also like to bring you an excerpt from Joel Goldsmith, from the book called “Living between two worlds”. In this excerpt Joel says: “In our ignorance, we think that there are sick and sinners, but no. They are in our own thinking. This is the only place. They do not exist elsewhere.” Can you talk a little more about the nature of thought, about that?
MG: Joel's statement is interesting, isn't it? He says “in our thinking,” “in our particular view.” It is always in our particular vision that this world is seen in this format. It is a particular view of the “me,” it is a particular view of that thought. What we call “I” here, this “me”, is a set of ideas, beliefs, memories, remembrances, and thoughts. And it is only in thought that we are seeing sick ones and sinners, but we are also seeing healthy people and these so– called “saints.” These are all concepts of the mind itself. It is in the mind that we are seeing all this. When we are beyond the mind, we are beyond time and beyond that notion of space, where saints and sinners appear, where healthy and sick ones appear.
What is the Truth about who we are? It is the Truth of being Pure Consciousness. So, the world is seen as a phenomenal apparition, as a great dream, and it is no longer a personal dream. It is exactly in this personal dream that we are seeing the world and interpreting the world through this model of thought, which is the “I” thought, which is the egoic thought. Without that model, the world or what we see, what we perceive, is a big dream, and it's just a divine dream, a dream of God, and in it everything is absolutely in place. It is only the sense of an “I,” of a separate identity, that makes these differentiations, that is engaged in these interpretations. Our emphasis here, Gilson, is to discover the Truth of our Being, of our Real Nature, because that is what gives you the vision of this life according to the eyes of Grace, according to the eyes of God. In that look, there is no separation, no division.
So, this whole idea of sinners and saints, healthy and sick, and this whole particular view of the world, based on thought, falls apart, it disappears. This is the beauty of the Awakening of Consciousness, of True Spiritual Awakening: at this instant, the illusory sense of being someone disappears from the experience. So, what remains is experiencing Life, this Life in this Beauty, in this Totality. Without the sense of an identity, which is this “I” identity, everything is in place. It is the sense of an “I,” of a separate identity, that is creating situations and doing things. And in that disorder – something created by thought itself – this sense of an “I” is suffering, this sense of an illusory identity is confused, disoriented, perplexed.
Our talk seems very paradoxical, because, at the same time that we are saying here to you that everything is in place, when you look at the world, you see a tremendous mess, a tremendous confusion. There is suffering, yes, everywhere, because that is the condition of the “I,” that is the condition of the ego. So, in that particular dream of a separate identity, the world remains what the ego has designed it to be, and in that ego's world, that dream of life in the “I” – confused, disoriented, troubled, suffering... Here is the paradox: to discover the beauty of being Pure Consciousness and being able to see, in the midst of all this chaos, this confusion, disorder and suffering, from this point of view. We don't have the look of the Sage, the look of a Realized Being, to realize that all this is part of a great divine game, where (in this game) we also have these aspects of apparent confusion, of apparent suffering, of apparent abandonment. The human being looks and says: “The world is abandoned, God is not taking care of it, because look at how the world is,” and, in fact, this is a condition of the “I” itself, it is a particular vision of the ego itself. Trying to reconcile that is impossible. Here, the invitation is: Realize What You Are and, from that place, look at the world. This sounds very strange, and there is no way, Gilson, intellectually, that we can reconcile what is being said here, because, intellectually, this is totally contradictory in appearance. So, we need to go beyond this conditioned intellect, beyond this sense of a separate “I,” to a vision outside of duality, outside of this illusion that conditioned thinking has given each of us. Then it dissolves in this Realization and the Truth of God is seen as It is.
GC: As I have already commented on several of our videocasts, the Master's speeches are revolutionary, because, in the dual intellect of this “thought and thinker,” it's impossible to take the Master's words and try to understand, try to fit them in, because they are completely outside of a belief, completely outside of a view of a present “I”; because, as the Master said so well, in this present “I,” in this illusion of being someone, the world is a chaos, it's a mess. Now, how beautiful and speechless it is when – I'm going to talk about that experience together with the Master –, in Satsang, in that sharing of Consciousness that in a little while, by that Grace, that look of the Master becomes present and we see that, in fact, there is no sinner, there is no saint. And it is something that is speechless! It was very strong here, Master, the idea of someone wanting to help the world, wanting to improve it, contributing... It is a very strong concept within spirituality, but it is a complete illusion of someone seeing people being helped and wanting to make some difference.
MG: Our psychological condition, in this sense of being someone, is to see the world from the viewpoint of that someone we feel we are. See how interesting this is, Gilson. We can't deny that sense of being someone when it is here. It cannot be intellectually denied, it has to be, in a direct way, verified. Realizing this sense of an “I,” of a present identity, of this “me,” of this someone, noticing this directly, without putting identity in this experience... just in this noticing, so this illusion of this “me”, of this “someone”, falls apart. But it is this realization that makes it possible.
We cannot, intellectually, talk about what is shown here as this “I,” as if, in fact, it did not exist. It exists and its purpose is confusion, disorder, and suffering, because in the ego, the purpose of being somebody is to remain separate from life, separate from existence, separate from God, and that is, of course, confusion. So, in the ego, yes, we are envy, fear, jealousy, confusion... All kinds of struggles are present, all these inner states of unhappiness are present. However, all of this is present in the illusion of this sense of egoic identity.
So, this is where the sinner is, this is where the sick person is, this is where the illusion of separation between saints and profane, between the healthy and the sick ones is, this is where the illusion of being helped and of helping exists. So, the ego lives within that condition. In this illusory condition of separation, we are living our esoteric, spiritualist practices, following organized religions, we are attached to studies, reading sacred books, to all kinds of things, in this confusion of being someone in this world of “I.” This is the condition of the person in search of something beyond that, beyond this weight, beyond this suffering.
So, our point here is that, yes, it is possible to go beyond that, as long as you discover the Truth of your Real Nature, of your True Nature – that's when that sense of duality disappears. When it disappears, so do these so-called practices, these so-called spiritualist, political, religious beliefs, because your Natural State of Being-Consciousness is Completeness, it is Love, it is Happiness, it is beyond this duality, it is beyond this world, this body and this mind, it is beyond, Gilson, this notion of time and space.
See what we are saying: we are signaling something for you here beyond the egoic mind and, naturally, beyond the intellect itself. So, we cannot achieve this at the intellectual level. This explains, Gilson, why no matter how much we read about it, we study it, no matter how much we are listening to lectures and teachings, everything remains the same: because the real work does not consist of listening to lectures, reading books, doing studies, but of verifying, in ourselves, here and now, directly, through this Self-awareness, this perception of the movement of the “I,” having a vision of what I have called here as True Meditation, in practice, the end of it all.
So, this Realization is the Awareness of your Being unfolding here and now. Gilson, it's not even a result to be achieved, it's an Achievement to be verified here and now. I know this sounds crazy, it sounds strange for this model of conditioned intellect that we have, religiously, philosophically, spiritually, and politically conditioned and in all other ways, but it's like that. There has to be an emptying of all that, there has to be an end to this continuity of the “I” and, therefore, to this condition of egoic identity, so that this reality outside this time and therefore outside this world, this dream of “I,” shows itself.
GC: Master, within this theme, I would like you to talk about what is a lot mentioned within the spiritual circles about the mission of life, about the purpose of life. And this is linked exactly to what the Master just said: to a result.
MG: In our idea, due to the conditioning we received from childhood, we always have the idea of “becoming” – listen to this –, of “becoming,” of “achieving,” in this thing of expanding, to improve, to accomplish purposes. All this movement is a movement in time. In reality, that time only exists in thought. There is no such time! From a biological point of view, from a historical point of view, we have time: calendar time and the time for a plant to grow into adulthood, the time for a child to grow into an adult. This is time, it is clock time, it is chronological time, it is calendar time. That time is reasonable. We know that time, and in that time, you accomplish things. You take land, make a project, call an engineer, idealize a house and, after two or three years, the house is ready, or a little earlier. So, in that sense, time is real, time is fundamental, time has a basis.
So, based on this principle of time, we are trying to apply here, in the sense of this realization of the Divine Reality, the same principle: “Today, God is not here, but I am going to find Him. Today, He is not here, I will find Him tomorrow.” So, for us, God is an entity that lives in time. He is not today, but He will be tomorrow. “I'm not living it today, I don't live it today, but I will live it tomorrow.” So, we're trying to apply the same rule to something out of time. God is not a reality to be attained in time.
So, see how interesting: we believe that Love will be found, Happiness will be found, Peace will be found, and worst of all: we will accomplish It. “We who? The idea of a present “I” that is in conflict? Can one, in conflict, walk towards Peace? Can one, in suffering, walk towards Happiness? Can one, in emotional disorder, walk towards Freedom?
What we have here and now is this state, which is the state of being what we are in this moment. If what we are at that moment is sadness, we cannot turn sadness into joy. Sadness never turns into joy, hate never turns into love. Hate is hate, love is love, sadness is sadness. Conflict is not peace, and peace is not conflict. We are trying to move from one point to another psychologically, emotionally, and sentimentally, but that is not possible, because that takes time, and that time is not real.
This psychological time does not exist, this emotional time does not exist, this sentimental time does not exist. There is only clock time, calendar time and the evolution time of a plant to adulthood, of a biological being evolving in that time, which is chronological time. But, psychologically, Gilson, envy is envy, that doesn't change; jealousy is jealousy and that doesn't change; anger is anger and that doesn't change. Loaded with this sense of an “I,” we want to be different from who we are. This “I” is projected into this “coming to be,” this “becoming,” however, this never happens. The “I” will always be an “I,” that ego will always be an ego, that sadness will always be sadness.
The Reality of your Being is not in time, but what shows itself as being you, here, in this idea of being someone, is the psychological condition of a time that thought has created. This time that thought has created is sustaining you in this condition of fear, envy, jealousy, and any movement you make in this state is just the continuation of this state.
There is no real movement taking place; it is the illusion of this psychological time. We are placing our trust in that, believing that one day we will be different: “Today I am not happy, but tomorrow I will be happy. Today I have no peace, but tomorrow I will have peace.” And so we project an ideal of peace based on conquests, on achievements, on material, emotional projects, on physical projects, on sentimental projects being carried out. This is a movement, which is a movement of the “I” itself, of the “ego” itself, to become, to achieve, to accomplish something.
The Truth about You is that What You are, is not in time and That which is You is complete. It is the sense of an “I” present in this illusion of time, which the I itself is creating – formalizing this idea of past, present and future –, that is in this anxiety, in this search, in this quest and in all this confusion! The Truth of What We Are is not in time, in that psychological time that thought has created, which it calls the “future,” where one day it will reach, one day it will accomplish, one day it will get.
I don't know if this makes sense to you, but look at this closely, look into yourself and you'll see what we're saying. There is no such time! This is an illusory time that the “I” has created, that the “I” has sustained; this is the illusion of ego-identity, which believes that it came from the past, is here and now, in the present, and is moving towards the future. All this is in that psychological time, which is the pure imagination of the “I,” of the ego, in that illusory transformation that it seeks. It has to go away! Only when it ends does the Truth that is outside of that time, which is Love, which is Peace, which is Completeness, which is God, show itself.
GC: Master, I think Master's statement is extraordinary, because Master destroys every idea, every belief, every concept. Within a spiritual quest, this illusion of being someone, in religion... soon we are in a material life, with material concepts, in a little while we go to a religious idea or within a more open spirituality, so to speak, but it always changes from one belief to another belief, to another belief... And always, just like the Master said, always in “becoming.” Within a spiritual concept, we want to be better, we want to be more spiritual, help the world, and the Master simply ends all this kind of idea, all this kind of belief. And it's something that is terrifying for the ego, because it's exactly grounded in that, right, Master?
The sense of being someone, Gilson, is on a false basis. You see yourself as someone else because you believe what thought says about who you are. All the ideas you have about yourself are based on memories, on remembrances, on a supposed identity, that thought says it is here, that you are not happy today, but you will be happy tomorrow, that you made mistakes in the past, that you are trying to improve now to not make new mistakes, to be a better person tomorrow, a virtuous person.
What I am saying, Gilson, is that, no matter how much you really improve as a person and achieve projects, dreams, no matter how much you walk towards this so-called “future” idealized by thought, you will continue to be the same person. Perhaps, with a little more comfort, a little less stress, but, internally, the sense of separation between you and life, between you and God, will remain present, and if that remains present, illusion will remain present. And we only end that, Gilson, when the sense of that psychological time, which is where that “I” lives, disappears along with it.
So, actually, we need to be really radical about the Truth. There is no middle ground here: either there is Truth or there is illusion. And the sense of a present “I,” however spiritual, however fair, however kind, however happy it appears to be, is still, internally, what it is: the illusion of the sense of an identity present in the present experience, and therefore, this is suffering, this is the absence of the Reality of Being. This is a fact! And if that doesn't go away, the illusion continues.
So, there is no middle ground here: either there is Reality, which is outside the “I,” which is outside time, which is outside the world, which is outside this notion of “coming to be,” of “becoming,” which is, simply is, or we're into this whole thing. Either we are freed from illusion, from this sense of an entity separate in time, living in space, and in this longing and always looking for something... because this present dissatisfaction is present in everyone. It doesn't matter the social condition, it doesn't matter what someone has already accomplished in life, if one doesn't realize one’s Being, there is no Happiness, there is no Completeness, there is no Real Peace. We have these moments of peace that we know, these moments of satisfaction, of pleasure, this so-called “love,” but what is the result of this in short, medium and long term? This soon proves to be one more decoy, one more illusion, because what is present is the egoic sense.
The work on oneself is the end of it. The recognition of this illusion is the end of this illusion. That's when What already is, here and now, is present. In this sense, there is no need to evolve, there is no need to grow, there is nowhere to reach, there is nowhere to go. The Truth – this is wonderful news – is already here and now. God will not come tomorrow, Happiness is not for tomorrow, Peace is not for tomorrow, Awakening is not for tomorrow. That tomorrow only exists psychologically, in thought. We only have the tomorrow of the calendar, but the tomorrow of the calendar does not change anything in our lives. Twenty years from now, if this egoic sense is present, suffering will be present, ignorance will be present, the absence of the Truth of God will be present. It doesn't matter twenty years from now, forty years from now. Do you understand this?
Your job is to acknowledge Reality now and become aware of it. You were born to discover that you were never born, that this dream is a dream from God. That sense of an “I” there, which is the ego, interfering, is just creating confusion. Did you hear, Gilson? It's just like that. Let's drop this!
GC: Gratitude, gratitude, Master. It's been our time. Once again, thank you very much for this videocast. And the people who are watching the video: leave your “like,” leave a comment... This helps YouTube to recognize that the content is relevant and distribute it to more people, and also I invite you to watch the playlist with all the videocasts. And for those who feel what is beyond words, when looking into the eyes of the Master, there is an invitation to be in Satsang, which are intensive weekend meetings, online meetings and face-to-face meetings, including retreats.
Gratitude, Master, for another videocast.
MG: Okay, until next time. See you.
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