GC: Hello everyone! We are here for another videocast. Once again Marcos Gualberto was willing to be here with us to continue this series of videos. Also, for those who haven't seen it yet, we have a playlist with all these meetings, where I raise questions that you ask here on the channel and Master Gualberto answers, and I also always bring an excerpt from a book by Joel Goldsmith for Master to make some comments.
Today, I want to read an excerpt from Joel’s main book “The Infinite Way,” and in that excerpt from the chapter “Wisdom of the Infinite Way,” Joel, in a short sentence, says the following: “Do not seek contact with God so that He adjusts, changes or cures the dream. The awareness or understanding of God undoes the dream.” Can you tell us a little about that, Master?
MG: This question of the dream is very interesting. Hardly, the human being will really know what that means until, in fact, he perceives, directly, his psychological condition. The human being, Gilson, is in a dream condition, and in that, he is seeing inside himself and outside himself a completely chaotic condition of life. In reality, all this chaos outside, all this turmoil, all this confusion, all this disorder in the world, all this suffering in the world is really a reflection of your own inner state of consciousness. I've been calling consciousness... I use a different language than Joel’s. This egoic, humanistic, mental state of consciousness is the state of consciousness of those who are sleeping. What the human being, in himself, calls consciousness is his mental state, which is the egoic mental state; actually, conditioned mind.
The conditioned mind or egoic consciousness is the state of the human being. This state of the human being is a dream state. So, everything he sees in himself and in the world, everything he sees present in the world, being also a reflection of his mental or egoic state of consciousness, is within that dream. So, this is the state of the human being. Unless one wakes up, one will keep trying to fix the world, straight the world, and fix oneself.
The human being’s search for self-improvement, for improvement, for self-development is interesting. As a result, he has turned to various techniques that he himself has created, has engendered. This way, this format of search for perfection and improvement that human beings have, in this search for something different, does not work. One is, in fact, in that psychological condition of a dream, unhappy in oneself, unhappy with oneself and with the world, in search of self-development, improvement, and change, whereas, in reality, all we need is to become aware of the Reality of That which we are.
What we are is not within that dream condition, it is not subject to improvement nor self-improvement. What we are is complete, it is something unique, it is the Reality of God! And this is what Joel says: all we need here is to become aware of this Divine Reality; and I have been saying: the awareness of That is the end of this dream condition. It is in this dream condition that lies all this confusion, all this turmoil, all this suffering, all that we have experienced as people or as separate entities. In an illusory way, this is how we see ourselves: separate from each other, separate from life, separate from God. That dream condition ends when that God-Realization is present, and that is, yes, all correction; that is, yes, the end of all this confusion.
So, the dream is just a dream, but there is no longer the illusion of someone present within that experience, seeing the dream as your reality. The beauty of it is that the Realization of It is the end of suffering, because it is the end of someone present seeing oneself as separate – separate from life, separate from existence, separate from the other, separate from God. So, this is Realization in this lifetime, this is the vision of Divine Reality, this is the vision of God’s Reality, this is your Natural State of Being, this is What You Are, which some call the Awakening of Consciousness or Spiritual Enlightenment.
GC: I would like Master to speak a little about, within this process... It is not a process, but this Natural State of Master, this Awakening, this Enlightenment. The ego creates, within these concepts of the mind, a projection of That, where it wants to Enlighten itself. And then, in all this confusion and, as I say, in this “naughtiness of the ego,” it keeps perpetuating itself in this search for Enlightenment, in this search for a peace that transcends understanding. It is full of concepts about what that is, and it turns out that now, in this proximity to the Master, I see that there really isn't this story of something in the future, it’s this now, and it’s undoing the dream, it’s undoing this “ me” that I think I am. And there is a word, there is a phrase that Master occasionally uses, within what you have just said, Master, which is “the ego has no cure.” The ego has no cure, it really has to die! It has only to be seen as the illusion that is this ego.
MG: This sense of “I” is perpetuated, it has its continuity, in the very movement that it sustains. This movement which it sustains is the movement of the mind itself. What we call the “egoic mind,” or “the ‘I’ mind,” or this “I consciousness,” as I have called it, is the movement in which the ego is perpetuated, has its continuity, always based on projections. The ego is the one that is present because of everything it has preserved and kept from past experiences, showing itself here and now and projecting itself into the future. This movement of continuity and time – past, present and future – is the very movement of the “I,” of the egoic consciousness. And the “I” has projects. Indeed, without them, it does not live.
The ego in us, Gilson, is present because of the past or because of the future. We have no thoughts here and now as to what is now happening here. Look within yourself and you will see what I am putting here. Every thought of yours is just talking about the past or the future. And why is this? Why does it happen? Because this thought is the way for this thinker, which is the “I,” the “ego,” to stay alive. So, it settles itself into projects. The ego is always in this project of the future; and, in the future, it also wants to get rid of the condition it lives now, blaming the past.
The movement of the ego is very curious. The ego, for example, will say: “I need to get rid of envy” – because, if it is religious, it says that – or “I need to get rid of jealousy,” “I need to get rid of anger,” “from violence” or “from sin,” and it keeps saying: “I need to get rid of it, I need to get rid of it…” And it never gets rid of it! It is always projecting an ideal, a goal, into the future. As it is a project and a goal of its own perpetuating itself in time, and its intention is continuity, everything remains the same!
So, the ego is basically this search for the future. And the greater future of the ego – now you've touched here – is Enlightenment. First, it tried through materialism to be happy, to be fulfilled as an entrepreneur, as a businessman, in short... It tried to attain happiness and peace through the world’s path, through material fulfillment. It failed. Then it tried the path of spirituality. It didn't work either. It discovers this thing called “Enlightenment” and now it’s projecting something into the future called “Enlightenment.” Here, I want you to understand that all the work that is required for the Awakening of the Reality of your Being is now, and there is no past and no future.
That is why I have been emphasizing, Gilson, the importance of studying yourself. And you can only study yourself here and now, looking at that movement, which is the movement of the “I.” This movement of the “I,” as it is always dealing with the past, bringing guilt, remorse, regrets, pain, states of unhappiness such as depression, anguish, boredom, regret… Looking at this movement here and now is what I have called to study oneself, and observe what the mind is also doing, this egoic mind projecting the future through hope, through political, philosophical, and mainly religious beliefs: “Tomorrow I will have this communion with God,” “Tomorrow I will have this Peace of God,” “Tomorrow I will have that Happiness,” “I will soon have a profound experience with the Spirit of God”… And it lives in this projection and in this idea, in this ideology. So, it is always within these projects looking for an improvement for itself, a self-improvement, only now in the name of a religious life, in the name of a so-called “spiritual” or “spiritualist” life. But it is always the ego, it is always a movement of the ego projecting itself.
This vision of the Truth about who You are is the end of this illusion of this “I,” this “me.” Observing yourself, becoming aware of it, is all that is needed for this sense of “I” to disappear. And that Reality, which is already present now, does not come from the past nor is it in the future; it is here and now as the Reality of your own Being, That which I have called Real Consciousness, no longer the egoic consciousness, this mental consciousness. It is in this egoic consciousness, Gilson, in this mental consciousness, that is the whole background of experience, remembrances, memories, and programs running, that I have called “conditioning,” “conditioned mind,” or “conditioned consciousness.” All this ends when there is the contact with True Meditation in a practical way, here and now. And this is our work, this is what we are proposing to those who are approaching this study of yourselves, this investigation of yourselves.
GC: Master, I have already said it several times, but I have to repeat it: these lines by Master, this direct pointing by Master is very revolutionary, because it really is to destroy that false sense of someone. And, when the Master spoke, I laughed, because I remember that I had “The Secret.” Master has already made some videos talking about “The Secret,” visualizing dreams... There is a lot of this in self-awareness. And I remember that I had my dream wall, by profession and such… and then, a few years ago, changed that goal to the “glorious goal of Spiritual Enlightenment.” The ego is very naughty, it’s very naughty!
MG: You see? That’s what I said: if you're not successful in the world, you turn to God sometimes, because God must have something that you, as someone in the world, haven't got yet. Maybe God has something for you that the world didn't give you and you didn't get it because you didn't get it. And if you are a businessman or someone who is successful, someone who already has a certain material and external achievement, you look at yourself and say, “What is missing?” Then you [say] too: “God is missing!” What does it become? A project. But it’s just a project! And you continue in a search, still materialistic, but with this veneer of spiritualism or spirituality, or this so-called “search for God.”
GC: It’s just that... now it’s laughable, but that varnish... how pretty the ego paints that varnish, that spiritual garb! And if you compare it with the world, it thinks it’s doing very well, because it’s in search of God. But, now with this proximity to the Master and this immersion in investigations in Satsang, it becomes very clear how naughty the ego, this seeker’s outfit is. And how much the ego likes it... because now it seems that the Master has already taken away all the pleasure I had in reading, etc. Completely gone! That work of being with the Master, of being attentive to what is going on, remains. But I see how interesting this thought movement of wanting to practice meditation is, to sit and meditate – which is nothing more than escape – or the practice of reading. Or rather, exactly thought-time as well: “When I become Enlightened.” And seeing this now is funny, but, if you “blink your eye,” the thought is in this idea of the future, of becoming, of coming to be, and it is only with the Grace of the Master for us to see all this fantasy and all this clothing with this varnish that the ego puts on.
MG: All this movement, Gilson, all this movement of the “I” is a movement of time that thought creates. We have a time that only exists for thought. For example, we say “tomorrow.” Okay, tomorrow is a date on the calendar. So, we can't deny that tomorrow we have an appointment, but that’s chronological time. Within this dream of the world, this chronological time is something that is present. Now, psychological tomorrow does not exist! Let me make this very clear here for you. If you're jealous and say “tomorrow I'll be free” or “five years from now... I'm going to do a project here so that in five years from now I won't be jealous of anything, anyone, anything” ... Do you know someone who has already managed to carry out a project like this?
We manage to free ourselves, in time, in this time that thought creates, which is the psychological time, in this psychological tomorrow, in this psychological future... Do you know anyone who has already freed themselves from envy in this way? Jealousy, fear, anguish, sadness? “Tomorrow or five years from now, I will no longer have any form of sadness, I will be living that Joy that Christ promises in the scriptures.” “Behold, I give you my peace. Behold, I give you my Joy so that it may remain in you. May your Joy be perfect!” – it’s right there in the Bible! Do you know someone who has already made a project for five years from now to have this perfect Joy, which is the Christ’s Joy, which is the Joy of Freedom from pain, suffering, never to be sad again?
So, we have an ideal of what is not real. Psychological time, which is the time of the “I,” of the ego, is a fallacy along with it! And we are, within the psychological time, always in a project to realize God tomorrow, to have this communion with God tomorrow.
That’s why we continue studying, reading, learning, listening to lectures, always with an ideal of the future to accomplish this. Let’s stop with it! Let’s look at what’s going on here and now. Let’s study ourselves! And to study yourself is to observe this movement of the “I” by putting yourself in that condition, and this is now! And if you see that this is now – this sense of “I” is bringing this memory, this remembrance, this pain from the past – if you become aware of this presence of the “I” doing this game, you can get rid of this “I.” So, looking at yourself, self-observing, is becoming aware of the illusion of this “I” creating all this psychological complexity, all this psychological confusion, all the psychological time.
The “I” is the one in us that lives, I repeat... It lives now because of memories and remembrances. Right here and now, there is no room for that suffering of guilt. Only the ego finds a space for this suffering of guilt. Guilt is a memory, a remembrance, something you lived, which your “I,” your ego, is very sorry and, as it needs to be someone within the experience of the present moment, it presents itself with that pain called guilt. There’s no room for that pain right here and now, because it’s not being real anymore. It’s only real in the psychological time, this supposed identity passing as you here and now, in this experience.
So, to study yourself is to discard the “I” element, the “ego” element, from experience. If it is not there, which is the thinker, which is the observer, and the experience itself is seen without it, that experience disappears, that pain disappears, that guilt disappears, that dead past disappears. Otherwise, the “I” will live on. And the “I” is the life of this illusion of a past, which is not real but is still alive. The whole experience of the ego is the experience of an identity that is not real and assumes a time that it produces, to live in it being someone.
So, these internal states in us of psychological suffering, of psychological pain – and it’s only psychological really – are an independent production of an illusory identity, an illusory identity that sees itself as independent, which sees itself as free, which sees itself as aware of, autonomous, responsible and present within the experience, and maintainer of these internal states, which is a mere projection of the “I” itself within this psychological time that it idealizes, that it idealized, that it has been idealizing throughout all this time, in this so-called “my life,” “our life,” which is not real. There is only this Divine Reality, which is the Life of God, the Reality of Being, of Presence, of Consciousness, which is beyond this past, present, and future.
GC: Master, we have a question from Gustavo Henrique. He asks: “Master, when you have suffering and ask yourself ‘who is it that perceives this suffering?’, what does this question want to point out? I have difficulty at this point.”
MG: If you ask the question “who perceives this suffering?”, where is this question coming from? We can ask these kinds of questions. Humans have been doing that. We've been asking these kinds of questions. This kind of question is the question of those who are just doing an analysis of themselves, who are analyzing themselves. When I use the expression “study yourself” here, I am not talking about analyzing yourself. If you ask yourself such a question, who will be in that question? Who is the one who suffers, who cares about this suffering to the point of asking who is suffering? Is this suffering separate from that one who suffers? If there were no suffering, would there be this question? Would there be that “someone” to ask that question?
The truth is that the sufferer is the one who asks the question about the suffering he feels. We have the same phenomenon here: the sufferer is the suffering. And it is the suffering that formulates, in the name of that sufferer, the question itself. Here, our interest, Gilson, is in discovering the reality of what experience is – what suffering is – without the sufferer. Here the point is to discover the experience of suffering without the sufferer. Looking at that suffering without placing that identity of the sufferer within that experience of suffering is the key to the end of suffering, because that is the end of the sufferer.
So, this contact with experience, be it suffering, pleasure, satisfaction, pride, desire, fear... whatever it is, experience presupposes someone within it to become aware of it as something separate. This division, this separation, is always the support of a present psychological identity. This presupposes duality. That duality is that experience and the experiencer, it’s that fear and the fearful, proud and the proudful one, sadness and the sad one, asking questions, trying to do something with the experience. And that something, basically, is getting rid of. If it’s from sadness, it’s to get rid of; if it’s from fear, it’s to get rid of; if it’s for pleasure, it’s for holding; if it’s good memories, it’s to sustain. So, when we do that, we are inside that duality: that “I” within the experience itself, sustaining the experiencer itself within that experience.
So, there is this experiencer and experience; that thought, which is the experience itself, and the thinker, which is the one thought says is responsible for that thought. So, we want to get rid of thoughts that disturb us, but disturb whom? We want to ask who is the one who suffers, but who is asking this question? It’s always the “I"! Here, I have shown you, on the channel, how to work the end of this illusion, which is the end of this duality, because it is when this duality disappears that the whole vision of life, the whole way of feeling, thinking, living life passes for a profound and significant change. Life goes on, but it is Life as it is, without the projection of an “I,” an ego, an identity present in the psychological time, trying to get rid of it.
Notice: getting rid is future, winning is future. And it’s always a relationship between the past and the future: getting rid of something you don't like, which is coming from the past, and achieving something you don't have, which thought says is not here and now and will be tomorrow. And we stay within the model of psychological time and duality. The work on oneself is the realization of the end of the “I,” the end of the “ego” and, therefore, the end of time, because it is this thinker that creates time when it sees thought and wants to do something with it. It is sustaining time! Now try observing without the observer, feeling without the feeler, looking without the looker. Maybe you say, “What do you mean by that?” Something very simple! In front of an experience, when thought arrives and says something about the experience, the separation has already taken place. But in the face of experience, when there is only experience, there is nothing to say, there is nothing to think about, there is nothing to conclude, there is nothing to accept or reject about it. This way we eliminate the “I”, “ego” element from the experience.
When we look at a person, Gilson, we look and draw conclusions about him, ideas about him, concepts about him. When we do that, we are, in fact, facing this duality, because there is this “I” and this image that I have of that person. Try looking at a person and just look. In that look, without idea, without belief, without accepting or rejecting what you see there, without thinking about it, there is no “I,” there is no separation, there is no duality. We manage to do this when we look at a tree, when we look at a bird, but the moment you look at a bird and say “what a beautiful bird!”, that’s it! When you just look, you get the color of its feathers, the shape, listening to its song and just being in the experience without the separation. It is when thought arrives, it is when the thinker arrives, it is when the experiencer arrives, it is when the observer arrives that confusion happens, that duality arises.
So, we are talking about something very simple, which we have been experiencing day by day but cannot see the importance of it and of bringing it into our lives in a Conscious, Real way, here and now. This is an approach to Real Self-Awareness, as I have been calling it. This is an approach to the moment-to-moment experience of Meditation.
GC: Perfect, Master! Thank you for this videocast. Our time is over now, so I just [want to] thank you for this Satsang, this meeting with the Truth, this meeting with the Master, with Grace. For those who are watching, if it makes sense – as Master usually says in the videos on the channel “Master Gualberto” –, leave a “like,” make a comment, leave a question... And, also, those who feel something beyond what it is being said in words, in the first comment there is the WhatsApp group, there is the contact of Leo Ortega, who organizes the meetings, the Satsangs with Master. So, here’s the invitation. In addition to online meetings, there are also face-to-face meetings, including retreats, which are several days of immersion in self-investigation. So, Master, gratitude once again, thank you very much.
MG: Okay, everyone! See you soon.
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