GC: Hello everyone! We're here for another videocast! One more opportunity that Master Gualberto gives us to clarify Joel’s writings and also to clear up doubts about questions that you send to us. For those who don't know who Marcos Gualberto is, I'll quickly talk about how I met him.
I've been on a spiritual quest for many years – the last few years dedicated exclusively to Joel’s studies –, and last year something very strong, internal, pushed me to step away… to step away from study groups, to step away even here from the channel. I didn't understand why at that first moment, but a few weeks later I ended up “getting it.” Because a video from Master Gualberto’s channel appeared on Youtube, where Master Gualberto deals exactly with this theme: the theme of the Awakening of Consciousness, of Spiritual Enlightenment. And something really caught my attention in the video. Not so much because of Master Gualberto’s speech, but something beyond what was being said.
And then I went to another video, and I went to another, and I went to another… And I ended up discovering that there are online meetings, weekend intensives, and face-to-face meetings. And then I signed up to participate in the online intensive meeting, an online Satsang, and, during this intensive weekend, I was also able to “understand,” understand what called my attention. Because Master Gualberto, by the Grace of his Master Ramana, has already “reached” that Spiritual Enlightenment or that Natural State of Being, where Purity, Lightness, is the life of the Master. And where… it turns out that, with this State of Consciousness, Master shares this Divine Consciousness, this Presence.
And during the Satsang, which is this intensive weekend meeting, I was able to receive that State of Meditation that I sought so much with meditative practices. And during the intensive, I received this State of Meditation, which is this State of Silence, this State of Stillness, this State, so to speak, of non-mind. And then I felt in my heart that the search ended and a work began.
I've been coming for a few months now in the proximity of this work with Master, a work of self-investigation, a wonderful work! I just have to thank the Master, the Divine Grace, thank you for all of this!
Starting our videocast, I want to read an excerpt, Master, from Joel’s book: “Conscious Union with God,” a little excerpt where Joel talks exactly about “Master.” Joel states: “What is the Master? The Master is not a man. The Master is that divine message, that Truth. Here is the Master! And sitting at his feet really means purifying the consciousness of all self-will, of all personal desire, really leaving everything that is yours on the altar of this Truth. How many times did Jesus tell us that we need to leave everything for Christ? How many times did he point out the infinite number of excuses given: one person has to bury his father-in-law; another has to get married… How many were invited to the banquet and couldn't make it? So many other things to do, so many other obligations… But receiving Divine Light means offering yourself on the altar of Spiritual Truth. It means sacrificing all sense of ‘I,’ every selfish sense or desire for personal gain.”
Master, I would like you to talk a little about what Joel brings here and also about the name of the channel itself, “Master Gualberto,” because, as I have already reported in some other videocasts, the first moment I discovered the channel from Master I was afraid of the word “Master”: “What do you mean ‘Master'?” And then, obviously, getting to know you, participating in the Satsangs, I saw that there is no one who calls himself “Master.” Exactly, there is no one who calls himself anything, that’s why he is in this Natural State, in this lightness of just Being. But I got carried away talking, Master. The word is with you.
MG: Okay, let’s go then! The first thing here is for us to demystify this idea of “someone” ... “someone” being a Master. There is no such thing! Reality is one. There is only one present Truth here and now, in this moment. What differentiates those who are Awakened from those who do not yet see themselves in this Reality, which is the Truth of their own Being, is the still illusory sense of separation present in those who still see themselves as being “someone” in life, “someone” here at this moment, “someone” within some experience, whatever it may be.
Thus, [the difference] is the Reality of Being that in this or that one has already revealed itself, has already shown itself, is already there. So, when that one or that one awakens, one becomes aware of the Truth of one’s own Being. This is the Reality of all of us! So, there is no difference, no real separation between the one who is Awakened and the one who still sees oneself within that illusory misidentification – which is identification with the idea of a present “I” being a person, still in the world. So, Realization is being That Which You Are.
And you touched on the issue of the channel name. This is very curious. This channel... Some who approached to hear what I was sharing realized that they were in front of a Being who was Awakened, sharing with them a Reality that, within them, it was very clear that it was what they were looking for, what they were searching for. So, they started with this “Master” thing... At first, I thought it was strange, because when This happened here – what I later called “The Bomb Explosion” on the website – I just didn't know what had really happened. It’s a vision, it’s a way of seeing, a way of perceiving life happening. And I called it the “Natural State.”
And it was very curious, because, for me, everyone was already experiencing this together with me. Then I realized that it wasn't quite like that: they continued to have this mistaken view of separation, of duality, and this was no longer happening here. That was back in 2007. And after I started sharing this, these people started calling me Master and they made the YouTube channel, and they put “Master” despite all my complaints, and it ended up catching on.
So, anyone who knew me at the beginning, when we started sharing this, knows very well what I'm talking about here. I've always struggled with that. There are even people today who participate in the meetings and they are witnesses of this, that I never liked this, this statement “Master,” because this seems to me something that separates us, divides us, at least people feel that way in this approach, which is a great illusion, because there is no such thing. So, I always say to them: “Look, feel free. I am just what I am, and what I am sharing is based on what I am living. And if that makes any sense... I always ask: “Does it make any sense?” If it makes any sense, OK. So, I'm here to share it with you, and you can call me Gualberto, Marcos, Master, or whatever, it doesn't make the slightest difference. It never had any relevance to me.
Now, it’s interesting that we have a very real approach to this, if we are burning for this in our hearts. When I approached my Master, I really saw him as my Master! I was brought up in this search for Christ, for Jesus, praying, seeking God a lot and such... And at the age of 24, when my Master appeared, I realized that I was in front of Christ, in the very Presence, but That was in a different form: it was the form of Ramana Maharshi, the one we have this picture you are seeing.
I came across this Presence that was really the Presence of the Master. And, here, the Master was no longer Ramana Maharshi. He was Christ. He was the Presence of Christ! So much so that I always saw him as “Bhagavan.” That was a word that came to me, it stayed strong inside me, and I didn't know what it meant. And that’s how they really treat the Masters, the Realized Ones who work with you. They treat Realized Beings as Bhagavan or Bhagwan. It means “one who lives like God.” And that was the word that came to me, inside my heart, this feeling… But this is a very intimate thing. In that contact with a Realized Being, with a living Master, you feel it. But the Master, he never sees himself as someone other than you. It is your particular vision that shows you that you are in front of a Realized Being, but it is also a mistaken vision, because the day will come when you will discover that there is only One. And that One is neither Master nor disciple, it is the Divine Reality.
But we have to have this honesty very clear, at first. We cannot start from this belief of dealing with or relating to a Realized Being – who is our Master, who is taking our hands and leading us, and showing us the Divine Reality, the Reality of God, the Reality of Being… We cannot treat him like an ordinary person or see him as an ordinary person, because that is complete blindness on our part. The more we approach a Realized Being and live with him, the more it becomes clear that you are not in front of a person, just another common person, just another ordinary person.
One day Ramana was asked about the importance of the Master. And now we have just heard Joel’s statement about this: that it is necessary to have this surrender, this abandonment, this involvement of time, resources, like money; he puts it there. Putting life involved in this surrender, in this abandonment, for the Realization of That in this life: this is Joel’s talk. And one day Ramana was asked about this question of the Master’s Grace. The question was: “Is a Master really necessary?” Ramana Maharshi was asked. He said, “Look, more than teaching, meditation, or anything else, Master’s Grace is the main factor for this Realization. All teaching, lectures, and meditation, whatever you do, are aids” – he said – “secondary. The main thing we have is the Master’s own Grace for that Realization.”
So, it is very clear in India that this Realization comes from the Grace of the Master, because the Master is the Divine Presence, which is You! The Reality of your Being is there! But there, that Reality is showing itself in a real, manifest, clear way. There is no more sense there, in a Master, in a Realized Being, of separation, of duality. His vision is the vision of Consciousness, it is the vision of the Self, it is the vision of Non-Separation. This approach with the Master gives you the grace of having the Master’s gaze, the Mestre’s feeling, the Master’s vision.
So, there is something mysterious about this contact, which is this Presence of Grace, for this Realization. And when you are faced with a living Master, with a Realized Being, you are facing your moment to realize That, to also assume that Truth, which is the Truth of your own Being. And you are, in fact, facing the Truth, the Simplicity, the Naturalness of Being.
I have always considered this state to be a very natural state. However, despite being a natural state, I never tell people that it is something common, because it is not known to people. It’s natural in you, but it’s still not common for you, because what we know in the mind is the sense of separation, it’s the sense of duality. And we need to surrender it, drop it, let go of it, so that Realization expresses itself, so that Realization happens. And when It happens, it becomes clear that your Master has always been You.
In reality, the outer Master is this inner Master. There is no separation between the Truth of your Being and the Truth of your Master, who in India they call guru, and here we call teacher, but it is the same Reality. And this surrender to this Truth, this “putting oneself before this Consciousness” to live This, to share This, to receive this Grace from the Master, this is essential, it is fundamental! That’s what we have to tell you here. As for the name of the channel, it’s nonsense. It could have been Gualberto, it could have been Marcos… and it remained as Master, but be patient! It stayed there as Master; it remained as Master.
GC: Master, I laugh, it’s funny, living it – I've participated in several face-to-face Satsangs with Master too – it’s funny, it’s very different from the common human way of life, Master’s life. It’s another level. Even regarding the name, I know that there is someone close to Master who for a long time called Master “strange.” For an ego, if someone calls you strange: “What do you mean?” And for the Master, whatever, whatever… So, really, there is no sense of an “I” that is going to be offended by something.
Now, those who come across it for the first time, and I speak for myself, Master… The first time, when I saw: “Master Gualberto? “How come?” The ego is very naughty, very naughty as I say, but then, obviously, as I got closer, I understood. As Joel himself says, “the Master is not a man,” he is Grace itself, the very Presence of God. So, it is really a Divine Grace to have the opportunity to be in front of a living Master. And Joel also comments, Master, this sacrifice is necessary. He says: “There must be people who are willing to sacrifice time, money, or pleasure in search of the Truth. People who are eager to sit at the Master’s feet.”
MG: Yes.
GC: This sacrifice, this donation, this surrender, Master, is something extremely necessary.
MG: This surrender issue involves life, right? Giving time, money and pleasure is nothing, it’s still very little! If you look closely at this, you'll find that our greatest resistance is the surrender of that sense of control, of power, of autonomy, of the illusory freedom to do what you want, when you want, how you want. And, here, see, he touches… when he says: time, money, and pleasure. It’s interesting, because time and money, and pleasure involve a lot of ego power, a lot of ego power. But still, the ego’s greatest power is its self-sufficiency, self-freedom, and control. And when you go to a living Master, you are giving your head! You are handing over your history, your world history, handing over your beliefs, handing over your fears, your desires.
In fact, Gilson, all that we can surrender to a Master is everything that is no good, it is everything that one day he already got rid of. Even when he lived within the sense of separation and illusion, he experienced and lived all of this, and one day he got rid of it. And when you go to the living Master, you have nothing you can give him. He is Love, he is Compassion, he is Joy, he is Freedom, he is Happiness! He shares with you out of Compassion, out of Love, because it is his nature to share with you the Truth of his Being, which he is. But you are facing a free being, which is You. So, it’s an extraordinary mirror, it’s a wonderful mirror to be able to be in front of a being free of the sense of an “I,” of an ego, of that sense of separation and duality.
Something like that is totally different – and I am using the expression “something” on purpose – “something” like that, which is this Reality of Being, is totally alien, unknown to everything we know. And it’s like you said: a very close person, living with us, started calling me a stranger. It was: “Strange, the stranger, the stranger…” It was very curious, because the Reality of your Being is something unknown – that’s why I used the expression “something” – it’s something unknown, it’s the Divine Nature!
God is an unknown Reality. The Truth of your Being is outside all experience of egoic identity, personal identity, and all known experience of humanity. We are facing something new but of a simplicity, a naturalness, totally unknown to this model of being “someone” living the experience in this body, in this world, in contact with people.
But I have been emphasizing more, always, in these meetings, the importance of you investigating this and discovering this in yourselves. Anything that we say here, that we are saying, can become one more idea, one more concept, one more belief for you. You have to discover in yourself what we are talking about here. Experiencing this, in this direct experience, is not something theoretical, it is not something conceptual, it is not a belief. It is a real possibility of experiencing this absence of the “I,” something that can and needs to be experienced here and now, moment by moment.
This deepens due to this Self-awareness, this approach to True Meditation in a practical way, before the Power of the Presence of Grace, which is Divine Grace – and here it took on a form, which is the form of a Master, who shares with you, as Joel did and others –, and the thing is happening, an internal work is being processed there in that organism, in that machine, in that body-mind, until this Natural State also settles down. That’s it! This is Realization!
GC: Master, I would like you to talk a little about Darshan, because it is natural for humans, for the ego, to approach any content at an intellectual level and want to understand, want to take the words that Master is expounding, and want to fit them in, put them in a concept. And all the Master speaks about are just words. Now, what is behind those words, that look from the Master, that “sharing of Consciousness” transfers much more!
It is this experiencing. As I commented, in my experience, I received from you, Master, this State of Meditation, this Stillness, with this Darshan. Can you talk a little about it, Master?
MG: Very well. Meditation is not a mechanical, habitual practice. It is not a habit; it is not something you can do. Meditation is an event that takes place there, in that body-mind, when that sense of “I” is not present. So, the Reality of Meditation is the presence of Pure Consciousness in the absence of the illusory sense of an identity in control, in doing, in desiring, or in fear. It is when the sense of “I” is not there that Meditation takes place. And this is an action of Consciousness’ own generosity. It is this Presence of Grace that gives you Meditation. It gives this mechanism, this body-mind, Its Presence, and It takes its place there in that body-mind, and That is a Grace that comes from the Divine in the form of a living Master! He grants you This.
So, there’s an expression – and I've been talking about it with some of you – that in India is very common. They call it “Darshan.” People travel miles, make any sacrifice to come across a Realized Being, to have what they in India call Darshan, to have a look of a Realized Being.
“Darshan” means “to see and be seen.” Even if, upon arrival, the Master does not even notice your presence, if you manage to look at him, you are already in Darshan’s blessing. You are seeing him and he is certainly seeing you, because he is Consciousness. And there’s a Power involved in that, Gilson.
When a Master looks at you, when he looks at you, he finds you on a completely new level, which you are unaware of, which is the level of this Divine Presence, which is You in your Being. He is not looking at the person you believe yourself to be in that Darshan, in that gaze. When he looks at you, he’s seeing himself! It is only what a Realized Being can see: himself, since there is no longer any sense of a present identity looking through thought, as an observer.
Thought creates the illusion of a thinker, and you look at the world like that. You perceive the world through a curtain of images, beliefs, concepts, prejudices, and thoughts… That is the presence of a thinker, that is the presence of an observer. When a Realized Being looks at you, you are not looking at someone who still sees himself as an entity separate from Existence and who sees the world that way; you are in front of the Reality of pure Consciousness itself, in a look free from the “I,” free from the ego. And when he looks at you like that, his look is a look of Grace, a divine look, it’s a look of God. And there is always a Presence when you are in front of an Awakened Being. That Presence is the Presence of Consciousness, recognized there in that instant. In his gaze, you are in front of that gaze recognizing yourself, seeing yourself. Then, you are in front of the mirror, you are in front of Grace.
So, Meditation is something that happens naturally. You don't make any effort! In fact, it is the Master who gives you the Meditation, because the Master is Consciousness itself, since Consciousness is the One that gives you that Natural State, which is Meditation, since it is not your work, since it is not an effort, since it is not a practice. And here I mean True Meditation. The meditation that people practice is a meditation of self-hypnosis, it is a meditation of effort, of control. It is something they call meditation, but it has no real basis as True Meditation, because True Meditation is the absence of the meditator.
So, it has nothing to do with self-control. It has nothing to do with practice. It has nothing to do with forcing thought into a line of ideas or getting rid of thoughts, or seeking to get rid of it, or concentration... No, it’s none of that! Meditation is Being! And this happens naturally in the face of Darshan, which is this grace of seeing and being seen, of being in this sharing, in this communion with that same Reality, which is that same Consciousness.
So, the Reality of your Being is the Reality of Meditation. This is the Reality of God! The Truth that we are here and now is Meditation, because it is Being, it is Consciousness, it is Presence, and That is synonymous with the Natural State, which is Meditation!
In Zen, the expression is: “Enlightenment is Meditation,” because there is no separation between the Natural State, which is Enlightenment, and Meditation! So, the only thing that is needed is to be in front of a Realized Being. It is not to understand what he says, it is to have Understanding from what he says, from that Silence of pure Consciousness, which is Being. Everything he says is not what matters, it is That which he communicates in that saying, in that “everything he says,” that matters, and what he communicates is Presence, is Consciousness, and That is Understanding. It’s not words, it’s not verbalizations, it’s not ideas. It’s pure Presence being communicated. This is Darshan.
GC: Gratitude, gratitude Master! We've had our time there. Gratitude for this Darshan, for this Grace. I’m speechless. Just gratitude. And, guys, if it makes sense, as the Master asks, if it makes sense to you, leave a “like,” leave the comment… This helps YouTube recognize that the content is relevant and distribute it to more people. And whoever feels, when looking into the eyes of the Master, feels That which is beyond words, beyond thoughts, come closer to that work of the Master! There are online meetings, weekend intensives and face-to-face meetings, where it’s much more intense. And once again, Master, gratitude.
MG: Okay, Gilson, thanks for the meeting! Thanks guys, see you! See you soon!
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