GC: Again, Master Gualberto has agreed to be with us, here. Master, today, in addition to asking some questions that people bring in the comments, I want to read an excerpt from a book by Joel Goldsmith; The book is called “Leave your nets.” In an excerpt from the book, Master, Joel says the following: “Now the seeker begins to realize some measure of his oneness with God and he eventually discovers that the Spirit is really the essence and the very fiber of his being.” Master, can you tell us a little bit about what this search is, what this unity with God is?
MG: Gilson, we have to have a new vision regarding this issue of search. The position of the search is the position of the one who searches. The position of the seeker is his position. The question is: who is this seeker? Who is this person looking for? To understand this issue of search, we have to investigate the nature of the seeker. What can the “I” do, in this sense of finding? The problem for the seeker, Gilson, is that the seeker, what he does is project an idea, an ideal, a purpose that he has, and everything he can project is part of what he already knows. So, here we have a very delicate problem, which is “finding God.” But who is God for this seeker?
Everything we can do in this sense of an “I,” of a present person – this person, this “I,” is basically the movement of thought itself within us, in this idealization, in this search, in this quest... Everything that one can do is to protect oneself. Putting it much more directly now, I can put this here for you: all this “I,” this ego, can do is project itself. So, it creates an image, which is the image of God, and projects itself into this search, and projects itself into this search. The truth of the seeker is that he is an illusion, and he projects himself into this search, into this pursuit, and what he projects is still part of himself, therefore it is still within his illusion.
So, we have to discard this illusion of the seeker. This, yes, will be the end of this search. It is when there is an end to this search, because we discard the illusion of the seeker, that this Divine Reality can show itself. So, it is not about the seeker getting closer and closer and understanding more and more his purpose, his ideal, his objective. Here, it is actually about the Realization of God in the discarding of this “I” and therefore of this seeker. So, the work here is to understand the truth about this seeker. The comprehension of the truth about this seeker is the end to this illusion of what he is seeking, of what he is projecting.
Divine Reality, Gilson, is something that is already present. It is not to be found. It is not in the future. It is not in this movement of a search or a journey, because all of this presupposes time: you are here and God is there. You are here looking for God... Who are you? The illusion of an identity present here, because the only Reality in this instant is a reality that is beyond this present moment itself, chronologically speaking, which is the Reality of your Being, which is the Reality of God. So, there is no “I” to find God, there is no seeker to find what he is idealizing, projecting, and imagining. This is something completely false!
The Truth of the Revelation of your Being is the Truth of God, which is the only present Reality, revealing itself here and now. It is God revealing himself. It is not this seeker having an encounter based on a quest, a search – something that requires a movement, and this movement is the movement of time, of leaving “here” and arriving “there,” of leaving “from here” and grow, grow, evolve, have perceptions, have greater understandings and greater depths, going through a process of gradation, of graduation, until reaching this Divine Truth. This is not real. This is a fantasy of the mind itself! The mind projects this seeker and what is being sought. This projection is only present because the ego does it. The ego, basically, needs the future, and it needs this movement of separation between itself and this other thing. It is the “I” and that other thing is God. It is the seeker and that thing sought, or sought after, is God. Here we have the illusion of separation, the illusion of duality, and the illusion of time. This space between this “I” and God is a space within this time, within this illusion.
The Truth about approaching God is not that you will approach Him, but rather that He is taking His place and discarding here, in this body-mind, the illusion of an identity that has a name, has a story and sees itself as a separate entity, and sees itself as a seeker. All this kind of thing disappears in this Truth of God revealing Himself, of God approaching, of God, in His Grace, carrying out His work, which is to reveal Himself. He does not reveal Himself to the seeker, He reveals Himself at the end of the search, at the end of the search, at the end of that element that is in this search, which is the “I.” So, when there is the end of the seeker, we have the Revelation of That which is indescribable, which is nameless, which is outside the known and outside this possibility of graduation to be achieved, of time to be accomplished, and this is how it happens. This is the truth about the end of this seeker, this is the truth about the end of this search.
That's why our emphasis here, Gilson, is on investigating the illusion of the seeker. The understanding of the illusion of this seeker is the end of the search, and this investigation is already something typical of this approach to this Presence, this Divine Grace, and it This is what does the work, and the work is the end for this “I,” the end for this seeker, the end for this element called “psychological time,” which is the time that the ego needs, that thought needs to project itself, to accomplish, to achieve, to get rid of things... and all of this is absolutely illusory, absolutely false.
GC: Master, as I say occasionally, the Master's speeches are very revolutionary, because – bringing a little of the experience – I myself, before entering a so-called “spiritual journey,” I had goals and goals that were worldly, material, a goal of this, a goal of that... and, later, within spirituality, I was even taught to have the goal for God, the goal of reaching God, the goal of uniting with God. And then, only with this Grace, with this closeness to the Master, I could see what a trick it is to have this goal. It is a projection into a future, into a tomorrow, that only with the Grace of the Master can we see this illusion of someone who is searching and who is going to get somewhere. That is what is said out there, Master, that is what we have in the YouTube, that's what's out there talking about spirituality. And, even within this spirituality, as the Master said, there is the false sensation of having an experience, and then there is a gradation, and having another experience, but there is always someone experiencing, living and, theoretically, advancing steps towards that so-called “goal.” The prank and the ego's naughtiness are hilarious, right, Master?
MG: The issue, Gilson, is always in the known experience. We have a known experience model. This known experience is the simple fact that everything evolves and that everything undergoes changes. And in this evolution, in this change, we see gradations, we see growth. We see something move from one point to another, and that takes time, and that shows us that a change is taking place. We see, for example, a small tree becoming a big tree. One thing is a small tree. After two years, when you look at it, it is no longer a child tree, it is an adult tree. You see a “little pet,” you see a dog growing and its behavior changes due to its “evolution,” its growth.
So, our reference is always of gradation, it is always of growth, but here, when we touch the Reality outside of what is in time, which is the Divine Reality, we cannot have an approach like this, as people generally do. They talk about a search, they talk about a pursuit and they talk about growth, as if there were, in fact, a possibility of evolution within That which is outside of time. The Reality of this Being that we are, Gilson, does not evolve! Reality of this Being that we are is not born, does not grow, does not die and, naturally, does not age, does not get sick. We are dealing with something outside of time and, therefore, outside of this gradation movement. There is no gradation because there is no time, there is no encounter or possibility of movement “from here” to “there,” there is no possibility of searching, because this is something outside the known to be found. By whom would it be found, if the element you are looking for is illusory? If this search is an illusion? If the one you're looking for doesn't exist? The sense of an identity, which is the “I,” the ego, is that which is present existing only as a movement of psychological conditioning, something within psychological time, created by thought itself. It is when this “I,” this ego, this movement itself ends, that this Reality that is outside of time reveals itself.
It doesn't require any degree; it doesn't require any search. This requires, rather, an observation, a direct investigation, an approach of understanding the movement of the “I,” which is this movement that lives in this psychological time, which is the time created by thought, in this illusory notion of past, present, and future: “I was,” “I am,” and “I will be.” This disappears, because this “will be,” this “ceasing to be,” this “becoming” is an illusion. They are elements of the false identity that is the “I,” the ego, which only exists in this movement. It has no reality outside of this movement, which is the movement of thought. That's the end of the search. Understanding the end for this seeker, which is the ego, is the end of the search, and this does not require time, it requires a work to, yes, a change in this body-mind structure itself. It even requires an emptying of this psychological content of this “me,” this “I.”
So, yes, there is work being done on this machine. In this sense, we have a perception of chronological time, but from the point of view of Reality, That which already is, Truth is here and now. So, if there is an element in you that can perceive this gradation, this evolution or this process, this element is still the ego, it is still in an illusion, it is still in a self-projection. The work, Gilson, takes place outside the known. It occurs in this living organism, in this mechanism, even operating a change in this very brain within us, but it is processed in a silent, anonymous, mysterious way, as an action of the very Presence of Divine Love, of Divine Grace.
So, this Acknowledgement is the Realization of God here and now, it is Him realizing Himself, it is Him revealing Himself, it is Him showing Himself. It is not the “I,” the ego, coming to Him, it is not the “I,” the ego, reaching Him. Our language, Gilson, is very complicated. We have a dualistic language: “I and God,” “I meet God,” “I have a communion with God.” There is no such thing, because there is no such “I,” nor is there such “God” imagined by this “I,” idealized by this “I,” sought by this “I.” What is this “I”? The question is: “Who am I?”
GC: Master, within this theme of self-enquiry, we have a question here from Sílvia Camargo. She asks the following, Master: “Becoming aware of illusory, emotional thinking, does that already bring light? Is that what you mean? And when we look at illusion, the problem is this: it still doesn't go away. Is it because we haven’t become aware of it yet?”
MG: You ask a question... you ask the first, and your second question, notice, already answers the first. When you say: “We look and it doesn't go away... is it because we haven't become aware?” The reality of this approach to consciousness needs to be done in a very real way. It cannot have, behind this approach, a movement – even if hidden, even if veiled and hidden –, a movement of that ego itself, interested in doing something, because, if it enters, the beauty of this observation does not happen! The truth about observing the movement of thought requires the absence of the observer.
Sometimes people hear us talking about the importance of observing the movement of thought and they believe, Gilson, that they can do this, and that they may do this, and that they need to do this, and to get rid of this or that thought. It is always the sense of an “I” present within the experience of observation, when that is shown there, when that is presented there – which, in this case, is a thought –, that actually prevents you from understanding what thought is, because of the presence, thus, of this observer, this experiencer.
So, we need to find out what observing is without the observer, what experience is without the experiencer. This is something that becomes possible when there is no element that wants to get rid of thought, that wants to get rid of experience, because that element that wants to get rid of thought is still the thinker, that element that wants to get rid of experience is still the experiencer. The Truth of True Meditation is an observation approach without choice, without comparison, without evaluation, without intention, without desire, without seeking to do something with it. At whatever level there is an attempt or search to change what is being observed, it is the classic sign of the presence of the observer. The attempt or search to modify the experience, to make it different, is the presence of the experiencer.
Our life, for all the time we have had, all we have done is fight, seek to change something, alter something, strive in relation to a given experience, a given thought, a given feeling. So, we are always putting the “I” element present when a thought arises, an emotion arises, a feeling, a perception... When something appears, either we like it and want more of it, or we don't like it and reject it and want to get rid of it. All we have done, throughout this time of life and human existence, is to deal with thoughts, emotions, feelings, sensations, and perceptions from the standpoint of that center, which is the “I,” which is the thinker, which is the experiencer, which is the observer. Our addiction to being someone consists of this.
So, this first approach to the Truth of True Meditation, which is the awareness of looking at all this without intervening, without interfering, is not really something very simple in practice; it requires this energy of attention on yourself right now, the mindfulness that, in general, most people don’t have, because they have lived their entire lives in that ancient and old pattern. So, we need to have some patience with ourselves in this encounter with the Truth of Self-awareness, with the Truth of True Meditation, in a practical way. Then, something will reveal itself. As you are here on this channel, something is already revealing itself to you, which is the Presence of this Grace, which makes this possible.
So, Gilson, it's not about effort, it's not about self-discipline, it's not about concentration, it's not about introspection, it's not about any of that stuff we hear about. For Real Meditation, for True Meditation, for that which can really show you the Truth of What is Real, we have to let go of ourselves, leave, release, give up everything that we have learned out there, that takes the name of “meditation,” which takes the name of “observation of thoughts.” This, in general, is something linked to effort, control, introspection, and that is not what we are dealing with here. You need to discover this, experience this.
GC: Master, it's incredible how this activity of the “I” is always aimed at a purpose, right, Master? Even in this self-observation: you want to self-observe to get rid of a state or to maintain a state. And this mechanism of this “I” is always acting now with the aim of achieving something or getting rid of something else. And then it is truly incredible how, in Satsang, in the Presence of the Master, soon all this ideal, this “coming to be,” this “attaining something,” or “getting rid of something else” disappears in this State of True Meditation, in the State of Stillness, of Silence.
MG: The movement of the “I,” Gilson, is one of desire. Will is part of it. So, even when it comes to this encounter with Divine Reality, there is the desire, there is the will. The “I,” the ego, is present in a subtle way within this process of desire and will. This is why, in general, we live in deception. The ego lives boycotting this Revelation of Truth, because This is the end of it! So, it is natural for it to move in this desire, in this will, and live in hiding, live in self-protection, because That is the end of its illusion! But its basis, yes, is always desire, it is always the will, it is always an intention. So, in a hidden way, in a subtle way, it is always present in this movement of search, in this movement of pursuit, which represents a projection of itself.
GC: It's impressive. And this movement, Master... This True Meditation has no end, so is it just this “observing,” is it just this “experiencing”?
MG: Meditation... if there is a purpose, if, at some level, there is interest, desire, will, the ego is present! The awareness of Meditation is the awareness of Beauty, of Truth, of the Completeness of the absence of the seeker, of the absence of that center of desire and will. The Truth of Meditation is the Reality of this Being, which is complete, free from desire, will, purpose, pursuits, and is present. Your Being carries no desire, will, quest, search, or fear! Getting closer to the Truth of Meditation is getting closer to yourself. This is relaxing into That which is here and now, where there is no longer the movement of time, which is the movement of “coming to be,” of “becoming,” of “achieving,” of “getting rid of,” of “overcoming” …This is the movement of the “I,” this is the movement of the ego.
Throughout our lives, all of our experience is within this criterion of “coming to be,” “becoming,” “achieving,” “overcoming,” and “getting rid of,” because it is the movement of the known, it is the movement of the ego; and, here, it is the simple realization of That which was never born, of That which is not living to die, which is the Reality of this Being that we are. This is the Revelation of the Truth of what Meditation is. Without the “I,” there is no meditator; without the ego, there is no one meditating, there is only Meditation, there is simply this Being that we are. This is the Truth of Silence, of That which is unknown, of That which is indescribable.
GC: Gratitude, gratitude, Master. It is a Grace to be able, in this proximity to the Master, to see how the Master's speeches are not just speeches; it is Reality, it is what the Master lives, in this State of Presence, in this State of Silence, in this completely free State, because you don't really see That out there, which is the Life that Master lives.
Master, our time is over. Thank you for another videocast. For those of you watching the video: like it, make a comment... If you have any doubts or questions, make a comment! In addition to helping YouTube recognize that the content is relevant, we bring it to future videocasts. And mainly: for you who feel something beyond what Master Gualberto brings in his words, who feel something different when looking into the Master's eyes, you are invited to come to the online or in-person meetings called Satsangs, which are intensive weekend, where it is an entire weekend in the Presence of the Master, who helps us and – with this sharing of this Energy of Presence and Grace – deepens this self-enquiry, so that we can see all this madness of being someone. OK? Gratitude, Master, see you soon.
MG: Okay, Gilson. Until next time, guys. See you.
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