GC: Hello everyone! We are here for another videocast. Master Gualberto is here with us again. Gratitude, Master, for your presence! Master, today I'm going to read an excerpt from Joel Goldsmith's book called “Living by the Word.” In this excerpt, he talks a little bit about karma. He says the following: “The law of karma in the Christian world is called ‘as you sow, so shall you reap’.” And, within this theme, Master, we have a question from a subscriber to the channel called “O Brio Eterno” – the name of his channel –, and the question is: “Master Gualberto, if I'm not the one doing the action, what about the issue of karma? Is karma, then, just the mind?”
MG: Very good! Let's go then. We have to see some things here. Here, you ask: “Am I not the one doing the action? Is it just the mind?” There is confusion here, Gilson. In Joel's speech, for example, he quotes the Scriptures: “Whatever a man sows, he will reap.” The truth is: who is this one who sows? He who sows will naturally reap. We cannot deny this. This is a fact that we can verify in life. Everything man does has consequences. Every action naturally creates a reaction. So, for everything that the doer does, he has consequences for his actions.
So, who is this “I”? Who is this doer? There seems to be some confusion in the channel subscriber's question. When he says “if it is not this ‘I’, is it the mind?”, in fact, here we already have an illusory separation between this mind and this “I.” We cannot fall into this illusion, this illusory sense of separation, because there is no such separation between the mind and the “I.” Thus, there is no such separation between this “I” and the doer, this doer and the one who sows and then reaps. Here, we are talking about the same character, the same illusory identity, which is the “I,” which is the ego, which is this sense of being someone.
Now, we have to have a careful approach to this, because here, when we say that this “I” is an illusory identity, Gilson, I never said that this “I” does not exist. I have only said, in these statements, that it is an illusory identity. From the point of view of Reality, this “I” is a dream character. It is in this sense that it is not real. However, in the dream it exists. So, the human being, in his actions, is responsible for these actions; the “I,” in its doing, is responsible for its deeds. So, every action taken by this “I,” carried out by this doer, has consequences!
As long as there is a sense of illusion, of being someone present in the experience of this thought, this feeling, this emotion, this sensation and this “doing,” that is, this action, for this character there will be consequences! All of this is happening in the world. We just have to look at the world and we realize the mess that this “I,” this ego, is creating. So, it is very real in the sense of existing in this dream. It is not real from the point of view of Reality, when Reality reveals itself. This Reality is the end of this illusion of separation and, therefore, it is the end of this dream, which is the dream of the “I” with its world, it is the dream of this “I” with its doing, thinking, feeling, sowing and this “reaping.”
So, let's not confuse things here. All this sense of a present and existing “I” is doing is create confusion. This “I” is, yes, the sufferer; It is, in fact, the doer, it receives the consequences of its actions. What this “I” sows, this “I,” which is the ego, will reap. As long as we, Gilson, are within this dream of a world, seeing ourselves as an entity present in it, there will naturally be the sufferer suffering, the thinker thinking, the doer doing and, naturally, receiving the consequences of this, having a response to what it is doing, of what it is sowing.
The Truth of Liberation is the Truth of the end of this “I” that sees itself separate from life; it is the end of this “I-doer” that sees itself separate from action; it is the end of this “I-experiencer” that sees itself separate from experience, then Liberation occurs. This Liberation is the end of the illusion of “I.” Only then, at that moment, does one understand in a real – and not intellectual – way that the ego is an illusion, that the ego only seems to exist. And why does it seem to exist? Because, in fact, it moves within this conditioning. What we have as ego, as “I,” as “the doer,” as “the thinker,” is the very movement of psychological conditioning present in this mechanism, present in this body-mind, moving. This conditioning in movement is the “I,” this conditioning in movement is the ego!
So, this is the existence of this illusory center, this egoic center, this center of separation, this separate entity, the thinker, the experiencer, this doer. When the Truth of Liberation occurs – and It occurs when you are aware of the “reality” of this sense of duality, of separation, and becoming aware of this requires the verification of this very separation between this “I” and experience – when there is awareness of that, this “you” who becomes aware of this is no longer in that dream, is no longer in that movement model of egoic conditioning.
So, the Truth of That which is You reveals itself when that “you,” how you see yourself, how you believe yourself to be, how you move in this “being,” disappears. This requires a work of Self-Awareness, of observing the very movement of the “I,” the very movement of the experiencer, the doer, thought, emotion, feeling, sensation... Becoming aware of this here and now, is the art of understanding, seeing yourself, of becoming aware of who you are, right now. Therefore, approaching the Truth of Meditation, correct Meditation is essential, because it is what reveals, within this attention to oneself, the illusion of this sower, this doer, this thinker, this egoic center, this “I”!
So, we have to investigate, Gilson, what is the action free from the “I,” what is the action free from this center, this doer, what is thinking without the thinker, what is feeling without this element of feeling – which is that “I” that claims to be feeling, to be experiencing this feeling –, what is feeling without the one who feels, what is thinking without the thinker, because, in truth, thinking is only possible when there is no longer the thinker. This is something to be investigated. True action is only possible when there is no author of the action, which is this illusory center. This has to be studied, it has to be investigated within each one of us.
This is what we have been working on with you here within the channel and in these meetings, also, in person and online. To look at this movement of the “I” and eliminate this doer, this thinker, this experiencer, is to be in touch with a Reality that is beyond this sense of egoic identity. So, at that moment, there is no longer action and reaction, there is no longer this idea of karma, of cause and effect, because in this Natural State free of the “I,” of the ego, there is no longer anyone present within the experience. Something new is present, and this “something” is the very Reality of this Being, this Consciousness, this Happiness that we are in our Real Nature, in our True Nature.
GC: Impressive how, as soon as I approached the Master's work, there was zero understanding and comprehension of what the Master says. So much so that, in this process that the Master brings, this self-investigation, this true Self-Awareness or self-observation, within this issue of the illusion of a present “I,” I remember that it was common for me, if a bad feeling or some fear appeared, then another thought would come: “Ah, no, this is an illusion! This is an illusion here of the present “I,” who is feeling fear!” And then, of course, in Satsang, with this proximity to the work with the Master, we see how much, in this trickery, in this naughtiness of the ego, it wants to “catch” it and want to do a “self-investigation,” which is just the dog chasing the tail, because there is nothing being seen, there is no observation being made. Can the Master talk a little more about this self-observation?
MG: The problem with us, Gilson, as you just put it, is that, when something appears, we always have a background of knowledge – which is, in fact, a so-called “spiritual” background of knowledge, based on books or studies we’ve already done – to say, “Look, this isn’t real.” So, we are always, intellectually – this is something that occurs in a very automatic and unconscious way on our part –, we are always rejecting the present moment, the experience and what is shown based on affirmations of beliefs, intellectual beliefs: “ Oh, this isn't real!”, “No, this isn't true!”, “Let me look at this, because this can't be real, this isn't real, I learned that it isn't, so let me fix this, let me solve this, let me redo this!”
So, there is always an idea of this “me,” this “I,” to interpret, to translate, to reject the experience that is here and now. And we do this because, intellectually, we already have a background of knowledge, of bookish, theoretical information, of this thing called “spiritual life,” which we have lived until then, until this moment. So, we are always rejecting the experience of this moment based on this background of memory, remembrance, knowledge, and belief. This is still the ego's own old game. The ego remains alive in our beliefs, in our theories, and our concepts.
One very common thing, Gilson, is our beliefs. We have replaced materialist beliefs with spiritualist beliefs, and we are attacking what we call “materialism” with this so-called “spiritualism,” which, in fact, is nothing more than a psychological conditioning in us, which is based on a set of second-hand beliefs. We don't know the truth about anything we believe, but we know a lot, because we believe in all that, and we want to face the reality of what is present here, which is a moment of great revelation, with a theory, with a belief.
We live in a way that the ideals for us, the beliefs, and what should be, what could be, what needs to be, are more important than what is here. So, that's the problem! If what is shown here is sadness, that is what we have to figure out how to deal with! If fear is present, if envy is present, jealousy is present, if there is greed, if there is ambition, if there is verbal aggression, if there is violence, if this internal state, in this moment, is revealing itself as anger, rage... becoming aware of this fact, this reality, without this idealism, without this set of beliefs, without these spiritual, spiritualist theories, to say: “No, this is not real, this is not true!” ...
The result of this, Gilson, is that we don't discover how we function, because the conditioning itself... The most complicated psychological conditioning in us is exactly this spiritualist conditioning. So, we have all these theories, all these beliefs, and that's how we approach this simple fact that if there is anger, it is anger; if there is jealousy, it is jealousy; If there is envy here, of the other, of what the other has, that is what we have to deal with.
So, a real approach to the Truth about oneself is very beautiful, becoming aware of this whole movement of psychological conditioning. This is the Revelation of the Truth of Self-awareness! Not all that we've read about self-awareness out there, which is a new conditioning. Psychology talks about self-awareness out there, philosophy talks about self-awareness, people use the word “self-awareness” in their self-help talks, everyone writes about it and talks about it, and yet, when there is this Truth of Self-awareness, what is present is Wisdom. It is not the knowledge of the “I,” but it is the end of this illusion that is an identity, which is the “I,” exactly with all these aspects of egoic identity.
So, our work here consists of investigating the nature of the “I,” the direct investigation of this fact, this reality, without any idea, concept, or belief of any kind, be it spiritual, philosophical, psychological, humanistic… Learning to look at what is happening here and now and seeing all this psychological conditioning in which we were raised, to present ourselves as this complicated being that we are, in the egoic life, as we live it. Becoming aware of this is truly getting closer to the Real Awakening of the Truth of your Being, which is the Truth of God. What I have called Real Religious Life, or Real Divine Life, has nothing to do with what we call religious life out there.
We need to discover our Real State of Being. This is the Truth of That which is You! I have been using terms like Spiritual Enlightenment, Spiritual Awakening, the Awakening of Consciousness, a new Consciousness… we are using this language. This language is just a way of saying. Gilson, the Truth of Awakening, or the Truth of this Being, is very natural! It is a life, simply, with what is present here, without the sense of separation and, therefore, without suffering, without confusion, without selfishness, without fear, in Happiness, in Intelligence, in Love... in this full awareness that there is only God! Apart from this, we see this dream of a world that this illusory sense, which is the ego, has constructed; and in it, in the ego, we have established ourselves. Here, we are saying that it is possible to put an end to all this by realizing What we are.
GC: The sense of someone for this “I,” for humanity as a whole… it seems truly unimaginable to live a life as the Master lives, because in this closeness I see that the Master lives in this complete Freedom, because, by the Grace of his Master, that sense of someone present is gone. And, of course, people sometimes look at the Master and think: “No, there is Master Gualberto, Marcos Gualberto,” but in this proximity we see how… it is Life! Yes, there is this body-mind, but it is something free, it is something loose, it is Wisdom in the body.
Master, about a point you mentioned just now, about self-awareness as it is said out there, within this, for example, I myself learned this very strongly. Anger comes… “No, you have to know how to deal with anger!” So, if an impulse of anger comes, breathe, calm down, to know how to “deal” with the anger. And, within this issue, that ended up... Now I realize, with the work with the Master, that it is an escape from the experience. I am not present in the experience, in the experience of anger.
We have a question, Master, from Bruno Nunes, who also talks about escape. He says the following: “Master, is this surrender to pain like when you are sad and cry? Or is crying also an escape?”
MG: When we use the expression “dealing” with what is here as a present fact – be it anger, fear, anxiety, thoughts, feelings, emotions, perceptions… –, we are proposing to you the disidentification with this “I” that separates itself from this fact, from this experience, becoming fully aware of this experience of the state, without placing an element that separates itself to clash with it, wanting to get rid of it, wanting to do something, wanting to escape from it! So, see: we have to clearly understand, within ourselves, what “dealing” is. This “dealing” is the art of not being confused with the experience, as the experiencer usually does.
So, for example, in this question from our channel subscriber, he asks: “And cry? Also an…?” Every expression, when there is within this expression, still, a present identity, which is the “I” within the experience, in this experimentation of the experience... as long as there is an experimentation of this experience, the experiencer will be present. So, it is necessary to become aware of what pain is without the one who is involved in the pain; become aware of the emotion without the one involved in the emotion; become aware of thought without the one who is involved in the thought – the thinker is the one who is involved; in emotion, it is the emotional one; in feeling, it is the one who is involved in that feeling.
So, the sense of an identity, which is the “I,” the ego, is always surviving in this experience, because it is experiencing this experience and, also, holding the experiencer of this experience. So, this experience doesn't end, because this experiencer keeps it.
This explains, Gilson, why thoughts don't disappear from people's heads. They say, “How do I stop thought? How do I get rid of this chattering mind?”, because they believe that they can get rid of this chattering mind, they believe that they can make the thinking stop. This very belief of someone being able to stop thinking… It is the thinker doing it. This is thought itself separating itself in this moment as a thinker and saying “stop the thinking! Stop this chatter!” or “How to stop the chatter?” It's the bothered chatty one separating oneself and wanting to stop the chatter.
So, you see: we never come into contact with the experience without the experiencer, and that's what we need to find out – what it is to have an approach without the experiencer to that given experience. With this, Gilson, we eliminate the separation between the experiencer and the experience, the thinker and the thought, the chatty one and the chatter. And when we eliminate that separation, something new arises, because the energy itself – we don't have time to explore that anymore… the energy of thought itself is the energy of the thinker, the energy of anger itself is the angry one. If you eliminate the separation... And this attention to observe the movement of the experience, this way of approaching the experience without getting involved with it, is the way we eliminate separation, and when that separation is eliminated, that energy dissipates, because This energy, Gilson, is the Energy of Consciousness itself!
It is a subject for us to explore very calmly. All that is present is this Consciousness. When It is in this division, in this separation, in this duality, we have this so-called “human consciousness,” which is the “I” consciousness, which is the egoic consciousness, which is the dualistic consciousness, and when there is no longer this division, this separation, this Energy is Pure Consciousness. This is the expression, at this moment, of Real Consciousness. When there is this Real Consciousness, those elements linked to that illusory center disappear, then thought disappears; so, there is no more chatter when there is this Realization, there is no more this crazy, restless movement, this complicated movement, which is the movement of thought, completely uncontrolled, as occurs in the ordinary human being.
Then, the movement of thought disappears, anger disappears, fear disappears, anguish disappears. These frames linked to this sense of an identity that separates itself and remains alive as being the experiencer – as the result of conditioning – this disappears when there is this Presence of Real Consciousness. So, there is a new Energy present. This Energy is Love, Wisdom, Intelligence, Freedom, Peace, and Happiness. That is why the approach to Meditation reveals your Being – but the approach of True Meditation: because this Energy is Meditation itself, it is the presence of Meditation in the absence of this “meditator”; it is the presence of Meditation in the absence of this “experiencer” in the absence of the “I.” Is that clear?
GC: Alright, Master! Gratitude, gratitude. Our time has come to end. For those watching the video: leave a “like,” leave a comment… This helps YouTube recognize that the content is relevant and distribute it to more people. And here's the invitation, for those of you who have been perceiving something beyond what Master Gualberto has been sharing with his speech, here's the invitation to the intensive weekend Satsangs. In the first pinned comment, there will be the WhatsApp group link with information about the meetings, and we'll see you soon.
Thank you, Master!
MG: Okay, guys. See you soon!
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