GC: Hello everyone! We are here for another videocast. Once again, Master Gualberto is here with us. Master, today I'm going to read an excerpt from Joel Goldsmith's book called “The Thunder of Silence.” In this excerpt from the book, Joel says the following: “The conditioned mind generates our problems and, sometimes, this same mind can create the answer to the problem, but that is not what we are looking for.” Master, about the problems that the conditioned mind generates, and bringing an example: the issue of anxiety… How to get rid of anxiety?
MG: So, Gilson, there is something here that people hardly realize. They won't have the slightest chance of realizing this, in fact, until they are called to attention to this perception. And here I am referring, exactly, to this sense of someone present facing this or that situation. We do not pay attention to the illusion of what is
present in this or that condition. For us, it is very certain that we exist as someone present and, when something happens to us, it is happening to “me,” to this “I.”
So, when we talk about an internal state, be it sadness, anguish, fear, desire, anxiety, the fundamental belief here is “I” in this: “I” and this experience, “I” and this thing. Immediately, the idea of getting rid of it comes to us. This is where the big problem lies and we need to pay attention to it. The problem consists of the illusion of separation of this “I” and this, “I” and this thing that we call fear, sadness, anguish, anxiety, and depression. There is the illusion, Gilson, of someone feeling this, someone living this. So, there is someone and this thing.
So, to investigate the nature of experience is to understand that this separation is an illusion. We are conditioned in this belief of separation. For us, fear is one thing and “I am,” something else. So, when I feel fear, there is “I” feeling the fear; When I feel anguish, there is “I” and anguish, there is “I” and sadness, because we have an illusion: the illusion that we are not always within that experience and that we are always, as an “I,” passing through many experiences. Then, experiences pass and this “I” is always the same. This is an illusion!
The Truth of Experience, Gilson – that's why we have to study the question of experience... We usually say or ask “what to do?” or “what can I do?” or “what do I have to do to get rid of anxiety, fear, and anguish?”, because the idea is that this “I” can get rid of it, because it is not always distressed, it is not always afraid, nor is it always sad.
So, the idea is that this “I” is having experiences, but it is not those experiences. This is where illusion lies, because when fear is present, we do not separate the fear from the fearful. Fear is the presence of the fearful, sadness is the presence of the sad one, just as, when there is a thought, we have the presence of the thinker. They don't separate! The illusion we have is that we are the thinker who has thoughts, we are the experiencer who has experiences, whereas, in fact, when the experience is there, the experiencer is also there, and it does not separate itself! We can never separate fear from the fearful, sadness from the sad one, anguish from the distressed one, depression from the depressed one. This separation is a fantasy created by thought.
So, thought, through the thinker, wants to get rid of experience. But this experience is the experiencer itself! It's very simple for us to see this. When there are thoughts and you want to get rid of them… notice: can anyone get rid of thoughts whenever they want? All the effort to get rid of a thought, what does that effort do? It only strengthens the thought. And why does it strengthen thinking? Because thought and the thinker are one! The effort itself is the effort of the thinker strengthening the experience of thought. In this sense, thought is still the thinker.
So, the problem here, Gilson, is learning to deal with the experience without putting the experiencer inside the experience. That's what we haven't figured out yet. If we truly want an end to fear, we have to… unlike trying to get rid of fear, we have to get closer to what the experience is. Only when we approach the experience without creating the conflict of separation, of fighting, of rejection, of resistance, of trying to get away… because all of this only strengthens separation and therefore strengthens the experience.
This explains why, no matter how hard we are trying, no matter how much we try to free ourselves from an experience, we are only strengthening it. Here, awareness is the awareness of seeing what is here, and not separating oneself from it.
When we don't separate... I'll say it again: we separate ourselves when we reject, when we fight, when we want to get rid of it, when we want to push it away. When we do this, we are sustaining this sense of separation, which is the experiencer and the experience.
So, that's the first thing: don't resist, don't fight, don't have an intention! Just verify it, become aware of it! Another thing – that was the first – the second: don't name it! When we name an experience, we name it with the intention of doing something with it. That's why we have a habit of naming experiences. Another thing that makes us name the experience is that, when we name it, we classify the experience, with the idea of controlling the experience. But who is this controller? If not the experiencer? Isn't that still part of the experience? So, there is no point in naming it to control it, nor is there any point in naming it to try to do something with it, which is to get rid of it, or explain it, or clarify it for others. These are the reasons why we name experiences.
We just need, Gilson, to notice the emotion, the feeling, the sensation, the energy that is present. We don't need to name it. In reality, we shouldn't name it, because that won't help us at all to be in contact with the experience; nor should we fight against it or create a thought about it. All we need is, in fact, to do what we have not done until now: to learn to approach this moment to look closely at what it represents; and one detail: just to look! It's not to analyze, it's not to explain to yourself, I'll repeat, it's not to fight against, it's not to try to understand, it's just to see! To see the experience as it is, without this element that is the experiencer. Or, to put it another way: when we do this, we unite this experiencer with the experience, so there is no longer duality, there is no longer space.
See, Gilson, we are touching here on something fundamental for this contact with the Truth of Clarity, of Understanding what is. This is Self-Awareness. This Self-Awareness, which is this awareness of what is, without this identity – which is the experiencer separating itself and wanting to do something with it – is also Meditation. So, the way to approach any internal state is this. Thus, we eliminate duality: experiencer and experience, thinker and thought, the fear of the fearful, the sadness of the sad one.
Notice how unique this is, Gilson. Whenever a feeling is present, a thought arises – notice this – to explain the feeling, to name the feeling, and try to do something with it. This is a game of egoic identity, this is a game of the experiencer itself! Why does it do this? Because it always intends to maintain the continuity of the state. This is how the ego, Gilson, preserves itself, this is how it maintains its continuity.
So, we spend thirty, forty years of our lives stuck in internal states, naming, classifying, explaining to ourselves, analyzing, identifying with the patterns, without ever approaching it in a real way. To approach this in a real way is not to put the experiencer back, once again, into that experience. If we do this in a correct way – which is to have this approach to Self-Awareness, which represents the Truth of Meditation – when we do this in a correct way, we have the end for the experiencer, and when it is not present, the experience fades away, then a breakdown occurs, the end to this psychological condition. With this, Gilson, we empty all this content of the “I,” which is the experiencer, which maintains this center of memories, states, feelings, emotions, sensations, and thoughts as a culture within each one of us. This is the existence of the “I,” this is the existence of the ego.
Of course, I spoke here in a very summarized way. We are, within the channel and in online meetings, delving deeper into this. We need to have a new approach to what is going on inside each of us. This approach is without the sense of a present “I”, which becomes possible when there is Self-Awareness, when there is Real Meditation. That's it!
GC: Master, really in Satsang – which are these meetings that the Master provides, both online and in person –, the Master deepens this investigation, because at first it is really challenging to understand and comprehend. Now, of course, with the sharing of Master's Consciousness, soon an Understanding unfolds. Bringing an example, Master, I myself had anxiety, and the first thing that happened here was: “I am anxious because of this thing.” Obviously, the desire to get rid of that anxiety was already coming. So, I would get rid of it and look for a therapeutic technique, be it meditation, going for a run, doing physical activity... That's what I did until I met the Master and, in Satsang, gained some of that understanding.
And I even ask the Master to talk a little more today. For example, when anxiety appears, it is an energy, as if it were an energy. As the Master comments, you don't have to give a name, but, if you were to give a name, there is an energy of anxiety. But whatever it is, right? It's just this state of alertness, this experience in the body, of energy or whatever. Is that so, Master?
MG: Our inclination, Gilson, in general, is that when the state that arises is pleasant, we identify with the state to sustain the state psychologically. So, we feed the state by thoughts, by memories, by remembrances, to sustain the state. And when the state is unpleasant, we want to get rid of it, and to get rid of these states, the means we have is to occupy ourselves with something else that can distract us from this condition of feeling, emotion, and thought that the state is carrying. So, we replace that with something else.
So, it's very common for us to run away from these unpleasant states and cling to these pleasant states. When we do one thing or another, we are strengthening the sense of ego, of “I.”
The human being, Gilson, spends an entire life without ever freeing himself from this sense of “I,” because he is not aware of this movement of duality present when a state arises due to a background in the past or an external stimulus, bringing back this state that, in fact, is already within him. Just an external or internal stimulus brings that state again, and when it arrives, it once again finds the human being inattentive to the state. Again, he will flee the state if it is unpleasant, and if it is pleasant, he will embark on the state, on identification with the state. This way we spend our entire lives: stuck in this movement of the “I,” of the ego, always living as an experiencer, repeating, repeating, repeating… maintaining the continuity of this past.
This attention to the movement of the “I,” to the movement of the ego, makes you aware of whatever arises in this instant, and to look at that without placing the element that is the “I,” the experiencer, within the experience, this is the end to the experience.
Note, I am not naming the experience here. It doesn't matter what experience the ego has to present here and now and what name it has for that experience. This is also something fascinating, Gilson, because in our culture we are valuing names a lot, and we don't realize that this is a big ego trap. We love classifying, naming, and I'll tell you why, I just put it: when we name, we explain it to ourselves; when we name, we explain to others; when we name, we justify; when we name, we name it because we know it is a bad thing, and if it is a bad thing, “I” have to get rid of it; if it’s a good thing, “I” have to keep it. “I” who? The ego, the “I,” the experiencer itself. So, getting closer to yourself means staying with what is here without separating yourself to name, classify, condemn, justify, escape...
So, when we talk here, Gilson, about the importance of Meditation, we are talking about being, in this moment, vulnerable to life as it appears. It is clear that, in a meditation practice, we do not have access to this, we have access to it here right now. What have people done? They are running away from exactly this opportunity to confront the state, to look at the state, because it is when we look at this, how it manifests itself here, that we can go beyond that. We can move beyond this by letting it fall apart. It is necessary to bring Attention to this moment, Awareness to this moment, so we are in direct contact with what is happening here, without running away, without escaping... without giving a name, we can do that; without getting attached, if it is pleasant, we can do it.
So, learning to deal with each and every state here and now arising without this experiencer, Gilson, is the key to the end of the “I,” to the end of the ego. This is Real Meditation, True Meditation, Awareness of Being. To be that which shows itself here and now is to go beyond this being which shows itself here and now towards the Reality of the True Nature of Being. So, the awareness of what is, is the end to this. This, yes, is the end of fear, because it is the end of the fearful; it is the end of suffering, because it is the end of the sufferer; it is the end of ignorance, because it is the end of that “I” that sustains the illusion of ignorance; it is the end of stupidity, because it is the end of the stupid one. So, this is the Revelation of Wisdom, this is the Revelation of Intelligence, this is the Revelation of Truth. So, you in your Natural Real State of Being do not suffer, there is none of that.
GC: Master, about this Self-investigation, this Attention to everything that happens: how to maintain, how to awaken this Attention at every moment?
MG: Simple, Gilson. It’s not discipline, it’s not self-discipline, it’s not practice, it’s not effort… the word here is “interest.” The only thing that is needed is interest. Be interested in yourself! In general, our energy is scattered in the mind, in the idea of becoming – becoming this, becoming that, achieving this, achieving that… We have enough energy, but it is being wasted in this chattering movement of thought, always projecting itself into the future. So, we are always either in the past or in the future. This is a complete waste of energy! When we place an interest in just observing the thought when it arises, the feeling when it arises, something that the eyes are seeing at this moment, when we simply place the interest in looking, this interest brings this Attention.
So, I'll say it again: it doesn't require effort, it doesn't require practice, it doesn't require self-discipline, just interest! Effort is when we are divided between one thing and another. When there is interest and that interest is alive, burning within you, to look at whatever is arising here, that interest carries no conflict. Note that, in effort, you have to make an effort. You only strive because you have opposing desires: one part of you wants to see and the other doesn't. You discipline yourself, because one part wants to do it and the other doesn't. You discipline yourself because one part of you wants to adjust and the other doesn't. When there is interest, no! Interest is natural, it’s spontaneous! Notice: when you look at a tree, there’s no effort at all, it’s just a look! In this look, because there is this interest, Attention is already present.
Our job, Gilson, is to discover the beauty of having a real interest in the Truth. These meetings here, like online and in-person meetings, are wonderful, because they awaken in us a deep and real interest in seeing here and now this whole process of thinking, feeling, acting, gesturing, the way we speak. This Attention comes from this interest. So, your question is: “How?” Place your heart in the Truth and get involved with It and your interest deepens, it grows. When it grows, attention follows.
This work, Gilson, requires this Attention on yourself. This comes from this interest in letting go of error, letting go of confusion, letting go of illusion, letting go of what is not real. So, Self-Discovery, the Realization of Truth, is very natural when there is this interest. This awakens this Attention. This Attention brings you closer to the vision, the observation of each and every thought, feeling, emotion, sensation... and, at that moment, you no longer run away or identify yourself, you realize! And as this deepens, the Beauty of being here and now becomes evident.
See, it is not an experience, it is an experiencing of this Beauty, this Silence, this Stillness, this Truth of Grace. This operates a change in the body, in the mind, in the brain, in the cells of the brain. So, this shows itself to be the end of the sense of someone. This end of the “I,” this end of the ego, is the end of ignorance and, naturally, it is the end of suffering and of all these conditions that we have given different names to.
GC: Gratitude, gratitude, Master! Indeed, in Satsang, in this sharing of the Master's Presence, we begin to understand and feel a little of the taste of this complete Freedom that is the life that the Master lives today and, naturally, more and more this interest in looking at oneself emerges. It's... it's pure Grace!
And, Master, we're going to stop here, because our time has come to end. Thank you for this videocast.
And for you who are watching the video, here is the invitation to participate in a meeting, both online and in person, including retreats, which are these Satsangs, where there is a deep investigation conducted by the Master, where, in this sharing of Consciousness, of Presence, we can receive this Real Meditation and feel the taste of what this Truth is, what this Freedom is, which is beyond what the intellect can translate into words. So, in the first pinned comment, there is the link to the WhatsApp group with information about the meetings, and here is the invitation.
Ok, Master? Thank you for this videocast.
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