GC: Hello everyone! We are here for another videocast. Once again Master Gualberto was willing to be here with us making a videocast, answering your questions and bringing comments about some of the readings from Joel Goldsmith that we do here.
Master, I'm going to read an excerpt from Joel Goldsmith’s main book, which is the book “The Infinite Way” and then I'm going to ask you a question. The excerpt is: “Spiritual Enlightenment enables us to discern Spiritual Truth when a merely human concept is presented to us. Spiritual Consciousness recognizes Truth in what appears as a concept.” Master, how to deal with these human concepts? How to deal with human suffering?
MG: The whole issue here is centered on a very basic point, Gilson: the illusory approach we have to what appears here, at this moment, as an experience we call suffering. What we have in life here and now, showing itself, is life as it presents itself to each of us. As it shows itself, it is naturally challenging. We don't understand this issue of suffering, because we don't approach this experience of life with a direct understanding of what it is, what it means. Thus, we are very personal in contact with the experience.
Human suffering is something very common to all of us, but despite being something common to all of us, there are different forms of suffering, and we go through all of them from birth to the end of our days.
In spite of all this, we are dealing with something so common to everyone which presents itself in life as part of this challenge – in this “life of ours” –, despite this, we do not understand the meaning of suffering, what suffering is, in reality. We don't have an understanding of it. At most, we have ideas to justify suffering, to try to escape suffering, or to condemn suffering. In fact, we condemn suffering, justify suffering, bringing explanations, precisely to escape suffering.
We don't have a direct understanding of what suffering is, we don't realize the meaning of this thing in our lives, of this challenge that is shown. So, what we interpret in life as suffering, on a personal level, is present because we don't understand the Truth about who we are.
So, our entire relationship with experience... if it displeases us or if it causes us some form of harm, our inclination is to suffer – to suffer this experience, to suffer with this experience. It is always the sense of an “I” present not liking, not wanting, rejecting and therefore condemning this situation that arises, or justifying this situation that arises. And we do that basically to escape suffering or to run away from suffering, and within all that, we don't understand what suffering is. The non-understanding of what suffering is maintains its continuity in our lives.
Here, in this work, which is a work for the Awakening of your Real Nature, of your Divine Nature, we are faced with the opportunity of the Awakening of the Divine Truth that we bring, of our Reality, which is the Reality of our own Being.
In this Being, in this Divine Truth that we are, there is no suffering, there is no contradiction, there are not these different types of suffering that we know, these different afflictions that we know in life, because there is no longer this sense of an “I” separating itself in this experience, this challenge, to confront, to fight, to reject , to justify, nor to seek to escape it. It is this sense of an “I” present within this experience – which implies not understanding what is happening here at this moment – which means suffering, which represents suffering, which places us in this condition of someone present in this experience that we call suffering.
So, our attachment, for example, to ideas, beliefs, opinions, particular judgments, all of this shows up in our life as forms of suffering. The rejection of what is being shown here puts us in a condition of suffering. The non-acceptance, the non-understanding of what this is, what this is showing itself to be, this sense of someone to evaluate this, to judge this, to reject this, to fight against this, is the sense of the ego, it is the sense of a present “I,” and this is what sustains suffering.
So, not understanding what we are in that experience keeps us in that condition of a sufferer, and if that sufferer is present, that experience will be the experience of suffering.
It is always the sense of an “I” present in the experience, separating itself from the experience and clashing with it, that sustains this “I,” this sufferer and therefore the suffering. To investigate this is to approach and verify the illusion of this “I,” and to let go of this “I” is, in reality, to let go of suffering.
Suffering ends. It ends when that sense of an “I” is not present within that experience, which is desire, the clinging, the fear, the search for some form of recognition, of gratification. This experience with this present “I” means suffering. When that sense of “I” is not there, that experience dissolves, that illusion is gone. This is how we have an end to the illusion of suffering: by having an end to the illusion of this “I,” this ego, this sufferer.
So, we have to inquire into the nature of this “I,” this ego. This is what sustains suffering, because it maintains the illusion of separation and the lack of a clear vision that life is as it is. And it’s always this sense of “I” behind it, wanting to do something against it, causing conflict; therefore, causing suffering. That’s it.
GC: Master, it’s interesting, as you just said – and I also remember in a Satsang where you had commented –, how this naughtiness of the ego... it disguises a great pain with pleasure. Master, I recently realized this in myself: something that gave me a lot of pleasure... now it’s very clear how, behind that pleasure, there is an enormous pain, a dependency. It’s incredible how this naughtiness, as I say, this naughtiness of the ego, camouflages itself in joy or pleasure, camouflaging a pain. Could you talk a little more about that?
MG: The point, Gilson, is that we don't have a real approach to the experience. We do not allow ourselves a direct approach of what is shown here. Because we don't have an approach, because we don't have a simple mind to deal with the situation, we are always interpreting the experience, this situation, in a very particular, very personal way. This gives us a complex mind. This complex mind does not allow us to approach the experience in a direct way. We need a simple mind to approach experience and discern, in that experience, what it represents to this “I.”
The presence of this complex mind, which is exactly this “I,” this ego, does not allow us to perceive that, behind this or that experience, which we consider a harmless experience, what is present is the sense of an “I” cultivating some form of pain, that it is only a matter of time for it to reveal itself as suffering, even if at that moment it appears as a source of pleasure, as a source satisfaction or fulfillment.
Note: this search for pleasure, this search for fulfillment, this search for satisfaction of the “I,” is always, in this complex mind, a search for suffering. That’s what we don't realize, Gilson, in life: that all the movement of the “I,” of the ego, in us, in this contact with life as it shows itself, this movement of the “I” is always looking for some way of gratification, of satisfaction, of fulfillment, of pleasure – which is basically an unconscious search for some form of pain.
This is the other side of pleasure. Pleasure carries, on the other side, pain. Here, I refer to this psychological pleasure. This search for fulfillment of the “I” is a search for psychological pleasure. This search hides a pain behind it. This pain is suffering. This pain hides this suffering. It is curious to say this: this search for pleasure is, in fact, a search for suffering in an unconscious way. That pleasure-seeking is present because there is fear.
Look what we have here, which is quite curious: due to fear, the human being is looking for some kind of satisfaction, fulfillment, pleasure, and does not realize that, behind this search, what he is in fact looking for is the continuity of this “I.” And nothing works better to give continuity to this “I” than the hidden pain behind this search of an “I” that is always looking for something.
Putting it in a simpler way, Gilson: our ambition, our avidity, our search for achievement and success – to have, in that sense of an “I,” an importance and a social, cultural value, public recognition –, this whole pursuit is present, this whole search is present in us because of fear, and this is pushing us towards a search that, over time, will show itself to us as a form of suffering, as one or another form of suffering.
What I mean is that there is nothing out there that can really give you what you're looking for, because you don't know what you are really looking for. The human being, Gilson, is looking for Love, Peace, Freedom, and Happiness. But, in the egoic mind, he confuses It with fulfillment, with satisfaction, with pleasure and fulfillment on the outside, with worldly accomplishments. So, he is actually looking for suffering and not for Love, Truth, Peace, and Freedom, because This is something you realize here and now, exactly when you get rid of fear.
So, Gilson, we have to investigate this whole movement of the “I” in us, which is a movement that starts from fear towards pain, towards suffering. But we didn't investigate that. We spend our whole life, this life of the “I,” this life of the ego... in it, we are always following the model of culture, society and the world. Our worldly values, our human values, our values that are common to all, are values that we learn within this humanity.
So, we live within patterns of conditioning, behavior, because of all this propaganda, all this culture we receive, all this teaching we receive, this whole model, which is a common model for everyone. Having fame, having prestige, having money, having power, being accepted, being loved...all of this, in our egoic mind, is seen as the encounter with Happiness, the encounter with Freedom, with Peace, with Love. However, this is not true; it is exactly the encounter with suffering, with pain; it’s just a search for filling that end of fear present within that “I.”
So, that’s what we're working on here with you, working together on the vision of the Truth about What We Are, stripping ourselves of the illusion of that identity, which is the identity of the “I,” which is always in this condition of separation from life and therefore in that condition of fear and in that movement that we have just described. That’s it.
GC: Master, we have a question here from Maria Aparecida, which is within this theme of suffering. She made a comment on Master’s video, where she says: “This is amazing! As you said, this identification with the ‘I’ is to continue in suffering.” And then she asks the question: “What is the first step to stay always present here and now?”
MG: Our questions are very interesting. We want the first step. For us there is a second, a third and a fourth. Here, we are pointing you to something to be verified as something definitive. It’s not about taking a first step, a second step, a third step. Here, the definitive thing is to become aware of what suffering represents.
Notice that in her question it is implied that, in order to get rid of suffering, one has to be, one has to “be in the here and now.” So, the idea is to get rid of suffering.
In general, this is a very interesting aspect in our mind. Because of suffering, we want to get rid of it. This even seems plausible, reasonable. But wanting to get rid of suffering because suffering is present, that’s not enough, that doesn't work. And when we are looking for a method, a system – and, here, the system is “what is the first step to ’stay in the here and now'?” … Why that first step? In order to get rid of suffering.
When we don't see the nature of suffering, the structure of suffering, when we don't approach it, we don't understand what it represents, what it means. But even so, we want a method, a technique, a formula for getting rid of suffering, and that formula here is “staying in the here and now.”
What we have here and now is suffering. We can become aware of what suffering is, see that suffering is there because there is the illusion of an “I” in this confrontation with experience, fighting against it, rejecting it, judging it, wanting to get rid of it. This is what sustains suffering. This is present because of this “I” that suffers, this sufferer.
So, the Truth of the Presence of this Now reveals the end of suffering, but it is not this “I” here and now; it is the awareness of the illusion of this “I” showing itself here and now, separate from the experience that makes you suffer.
Notice how subtle all this is, Gilson, our model of escape (from this sense of an “I” present within this experience), for example, from fear, anguish, anxiety, depression, it doesn't matter. It is always the sense of a present “I” that, faced with the experience, which is painful, wants to do something exactly to get rid of it. When we do this, we are giving the illusion of that “I” a present identity, right now.
So, what is the beauty of an approach to the Truth about who we are? The beauty is that there comes the realization that there is an illusion of an “I” within this experience now, separating itself from what arises. When this is done, when this occurs, we put the element “time” present here and now, because if the “I” is present and the suffering is present, because of this separation between this “I” and the given experience, which is this experiencer and his experience – this experiencer wants to get rid of this experience by rejecting, justifying, explaining – we are already introducing the element of time. So, there is no awareness of the truth of what is shown here and now, because we are not aware of this separation between the experience and this “I.”
So, this way, the ego, that particular identity, which is the thinker, which is the experiencer, which is exactly the sufferer, is sustaining the illusion of a time, a psychological time, in the desire to get rid of, to get rid of this situation, of finding the “here and now.” This all takes time.
What we are saying here is that the Truth of That which is here, in this instant, shows itself when there is no such separation. When there is not this separation between the experience and this “I,” whatever it may be, the “time” element does not show itself, the “time” element does not present itself, then, in fact, we are in this Reality, which is the Now. In this Reality, which is the Now, there is not this “I” and the other thing, there is not this sufferer and suffering, there is not this one who is thinking with his thought.
There comes the end of duality, the end of separation, when there is the end of this time, which is the time that the “I” itself, which is the thinker, creates. I want to repeat that again: it creates that in its attempt to make something out of the experience. It takes time, it takes effort, it takes separation. Here is conflict, here is suffering, here is the illusion of “I,” here is the illusion of time.
So, the psychological time, which is the time of the “I,” is maintained when there is no understanding of what is shown. Here and now, without the sense of a present “I,” there is no anxiety, no fear, no depression, no suffering. The only Reality present is the Reality of your own Being now, which is the Reality of God. There is no suffering in any form, because there is no psychological sense of time. Then, illusion dissolves or illusion is seen as an illusion, and that is no longer present.
So, it’s not a first step or a second step. Here, we are facing the definitive, definitive vision of the end of the “I,” which is the end of the sufferer. This is the end of suffering; this is the end of illusion.
GC: Gratitude, gratitude, Master! Our time is already over. Thank you very much for once again being with us here on the videocast. For the people who are watching: leave the comment, leave the “like,” leave the questions for us to bring to the next videocasts. And, for those who feel something beyond the words when looking into the Master’s eyes, we invite you to participate in the intensive weekend meetings, online and also face to face.
Here, in the first comment, pinned, there is the WhatsApp link for the information group about the meetings and, also, our playlist of all the videocasts that the Master has already made with us. Once more, thank you very much. Gratitude, Master.
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