GC: Hello everyone! We are here for another videocast. Again, Master Gualberto is here with us. Gratitude, Master, for your presence. Master, today I am going to read an excerpt from a book by Joel Goldsmith called “Conscious union with God.” In chapter 2 of this book, which is called “Master, disciple, and teaching,” Joel begins the excerpt by saying the following: “The relationship between the Master and the disciple is very sacred and does not depend on any degree of human learning that a master may possess.”
Master, within this theme, can you talk a little more about this relationship between disciple and even, in this work that the Master shares, in this approach to work, whether watching videos on YouTube, the difference between who approaches and participate in a weekend online Satsang or even in-person intensive Satsangs? Master, can you talk a little more about this?
MG: Well, Gilson, this is something that, actually, each person will have to discover – what is the difference. What I have noticed, Gilson, is that these meetings we have via video are not so straightforward. Note that when you have a question, you can ask it directly when you are in an online meeting, in a face-to-face meeting, or in a retreat. And when you're watching a video, you just watch the video. It's like when you're reading a book. When you read the book, you cannot ask the writer of the book questions. You're reading that chapter, so you're left with the chapter, with what's there. When you are watching a video, you are left with what is being presented in the video. When you have an opportunity to have a question-and-answer meeting, that's something else!
So, the first thing I see here is this difference: watching a video, you have, in these videos, direct tips on how this work is processed and, to a certain extent, on how to work on yourself. But when you are in an online meeting, in addition to being able to ask your questions – which are direct questions that you have, and that given answer is something directed at you, it is what you have within a meeting –; furthermore, you have the presence of this Silence, this Power, this Presence, this Grace.
We have different names for the encounter with That which is outside the known, which is this sharing of Consciousness, which is this sharing of Presence, which you have within a weekend meeting. So, there are two days where we are working together and entirely focused on this work. So, your mind, your heart, your entire being is directly involved, in this weekend, for this work.
That's why I keep seeing, and this is what I've received in response from some who participate, that a 25-minute video, or two videos, is something completely different, it's different from several hours of working on this, in addition to this Silence that is shared, of this Power of Consciousness that is shared and these direct answers that are given. So, it's something different! That is why this is called, in India, “Satsang,” that is: “sangha” comes from “encounter” or “reunion,” and “sat” comes from “Being” or “Truth.” So, it is an encounter with the Truth. It's something that each one, Gilson, will have to discover, and we only discover it when we participate, when we delve into it and see that.
GC: Master, it's completely different, because a video, as the Master said, is something where the Master passes on information, but there is no interaction. There are only words being said and there is this Presence, but it doesn't even come close to an online Satsang, where there is this possibility of asking questions, of talking live with the Master. And much more than talking, than asking questions, it is something that is beyond human understanding, which is this sharing of the Presence of Silence that the Master is. Because of this involvement, something may happen, Real Meditation happens, which is this State of complete Freedom and complete Stillness, which is indescribable, and not to mention face-to-face meetings, because face-to-face meetings... that is, really, this closer contact, it's very close, so it's something that is still much more dynamic and much more fluid than an online Satsang. And the Master commented: the retreat! The retreat is something that becomes… It really feels like we leave the world! At the end of the year, there's the New Year's Eve retreat, and we loss... I speak for myself: I completely lost track of time, the notion of New Year's Eve, the notion of December 31st to January 1st.
And it's impressive, because I've lived in this conditioning all my life: December 31st lets set off fireworks and it’s a celebration, because a new year is being born, and in retreat with the Master, even the idea of that disappears, because it's something indescribable, like life that the Master lives is a life totally outside of all these conditionings, and it is a Silence, this Stillness, this Grace. And then, on a retreat, especially, which is several days in your company, Master, it is something that is truly speechless, because it takes us out of the world, it takes us out of the madness of the human mind of thoughts one after another, and then this Grace, this Silence, this Presence of the Master can be, so to speak, perceived, there can be the understanding of what is this Natural State that the Master lives.
So, I have said several times, including in Satsang, that knowing the Master and being able to see the Master is like winning the lottery, hitting the jackpot, because there are very few Realized Beings who do the work of Satsang, and having the Master here in Brazil, so near... regardless of where the person lives, it's next door. In fact, people come to the Master's Satsangs from other countries, from Austria, from Canada... So, it is something that is beyond words, because being able to see life happening, a free life like the Master... seeing it live, especially, is something that is beyond all comprehension.
MG: This contact, Gilson, is not a contact we have with a friend. Contact with someone who is outside this model of psychological time, of egoic consciousness, is something completely unusual. The Nature of Being in us is timeless! This is the Nature of Being! It is a subject for us to approach this experientially. Gilson, we live, psychologically in time, so our entire notion of existing as human beings, we learn within society, within culture, we were educated as people, to be people, to live as people, and people carry this sense of personal, egoic identity, they are living – these people – in psychological time, in this notion of past, present, and future, with this chatty, restless movement of thoughts inside the head. And when we come across the one who is living in his Being, in his Real Nature, we are faced with the one who is outside of time.
It's interesting that you say that the notion of time disappears when you're in these encounters, when you're in this contact. Why is that? Because this entire notion of time that human beings have is a notion that is present due to the restlessness of thought within. So, human beings carry many thoughts. The mind, which is the “I” mind, which is the egoic mind, is an agitated mind. So, it gives us, psychologically, a very strong notion of time: past, present, future, days, months, years, special times... So, our entire notion of being someone is the notion of existing in time, and when you approach a work like this, you have moments when time disappears, because that psychological time goes away when the egoic mind goes away. So, yes, you are left with this absence of notion of time, of changing the year or the change of minutes, or hours, because You, in your Natural State, are timeless, You are Being, You are Consciousness!
It's very strange for us to hear this within this vision of culture that we receive, because, for us, we were born... we were born at a certain moment, we are living within a period of time on the calendar, and we will die at some point. However, from the point of view of Reality, you were never born! You are Being, you are pure Consciousness, outside of this so-called “consciousness” we know. So, when I refer to the word “Consciousness,” I am talking about a Real Consciousness, outside of this so-called “consciousness” as we know.
So, your Real Nature is not in time. This notion of time is linked to the movement of thought, of memory, because thought is memory. Memory, which is thought, is a story. This story has a past. It is a story that unfolds in the present and moves towards the future, but it is always for this character, not for That which is You in your Being.
The beauty of these encounters is that there is a moment when you become aware that you do not exist as a separate entity, as a person in time. Something is present, but it is not this “you,” as you in the egoic mind see yourself, trapped in this model of time.
So, the good news about the Awakening of this Real Consciousness is that time ends, because psychological thinking ends. The model of “I was, I am, and I will be” – that ends! So, the beauty of this encounter with this Being, which is Real Consciousness, is that something unusual, unknown, something outside of everything that thought can imagine, reveals itself... in this instant, always in this instant, where this moment disappears, this moment of time – of psychological time and chronological time – disappears! This is Meditation, this is the approach to Meditation.
It's interesting to say this, Gilson, people realize that they are in Meditation and say: “Look, I've tried to meditate all my life and, when I get here, Meditation happens, I don't know how!” Meditation is our Natural State of Being! What was given to us out there as a meditation practice, to achieve meditation, is to achieve silence through effort, in which you get the brain used to entering due to a practice. This is not Real Meditation! Meditation is something that happens in a very spontaneous, very natural way, when you are in Satsang, when you are faced with the Presence of Realization.
So, to be in Satsang is to stand before the Truth of your own Being! The expression “disciple and master” has no relevance in Satsang, because there is no notion of master and disciple within this encounter called “Satsang,” which is “encounter with the Being!” It’s just the revelation of That which is outside the known! So, who is the Master and who is the disciple when only Reality is present? That's what is present in these meetings.
So, it is something that each person will have to discover for oneself in this observation, in coming across a work like this, in diving in, in getting involved into it. The only thing, Gilson, that matters in life is Being. You were born to Be! There is nothing so glorious and so singular, and, at the same time, so simple and natural as Being, Consciousness, which is Happiness, which is the Nature of God. A life free from this sense of separate identity, free from the ego, free from the illusion of someone with problems, to solve problems, to get rid of problems, because none of that is true. When this Truth is, everything is in the place it needs to be. This is the Reality of Being, this is the Reality of God, this is the Reality of these encounters.
GC: Master, this Reality is complete Freedom, because all longings, desires or fears disappear when, in contact with the Master, I allow myself, so to speak, to embark on this Meditation that the Master lives. Then, there is no more desire, there is no fear, there is no one's life or responsibility, it is something that is unique. And a very interesting thing, which has always been very strong for me – I wanted the Master to talk a little bit about it – is this vision, this look from the Master… this look, this Darshan. In fact, there is a video on Master's channel in which the Master talks a lot about Darshan, and even a guided meditation in which the Master shares this vision and this Darshan. And in Satsang, it is the entire Satsang of Darshan! Can you talk a little more about what this look of someone free is?
MG: Okay! This Darshan… The word “Darshan” is an Indian word for “to see and be seen,” that is the meaning. What is Darshan? Darshan is looking and being looked at, seeing and being seen. So, what is Darshan? In India, people travel, travel long distances, so that they can come across a Realized Being. Just to see him, not even to be seen by him, but just to be able to see a Realized Being. So, to stand before a Realized Being in India is to be in Darshan. It is this encounter with That which is You, That which is Yourself, your own Being, your True Nature, there. This eye contact is Darshan.
So, if that Realized Being turns to you and looks at you... You are just looking at him – that is already Darshan! But if he turns to you and looks at you, you have the blessing of the Grace of Darshan. So, there is something being shared in the look that the mind cannot reach. And it's very interesting to see this: the first approach you have to someone is to look at them. And why? Because internally, intuitively – I generally don't even use this expression that much, I don't appreciate it much… internally, the first contact you seek with someone is not with the person, it is with their Nature. This is why you look someone in the eye. And when someone refuses to look, we are aware of this whole model of the presence of the “I” in fear. So, fear, shyness, in the look is the presence of the mind interfering, intervening, in this “undressing,” in this look, in this seeing and being seen.
This encounter with the Being is the encounter with Beauty, with Grace. So, the encounter with the gaze reveals this: a gaze free from fear, a gaze free from the sense of “I,” a gaze without a past, a gaze without future, a look without fear and without desire. This is Darshan! In this meeting, something is shared outside of what is known. It is an invitation to this Ocean of Beatitude, of Love, of Happiness, of Freedom, of Being! It is the Presence of Grace; it is the Presence of Silence! So, Darshan is seeing and being seen, looking and being looked at.
There is something, Gilson, within these meetings, which is communicated more in silence than through speech. Generally, in these videos, we make use of many words and speech, so we are always talking, but, in these meetings, what must prevail – and this is exactly how it happens within online meetings and face-to-face meetings – is this moment of an encounter with Darshan, an encounter with “seeing” and “being seen,” this encounter with Silence. This Silence reveals a communion beyond speech, beyond words. The word, without this communion of Silence and gaze, remains only at the intellectual level.
So, getting closer to this work is through Silence, through the gaze. This is something far beyond speech, far beyond words. This puts us in an internal state of communion, where Meditation reveals itself. So, this state of Meditation becomes very simple and natural when we are in-person or online contact. Just as something is also possible through videos, but never with this intensity and with such great power. That's it.
GC: Master, it is truly indescribable. And how strong it is, Master, within this movement of the “I,” the movement, including, of escaping, in the sense of... For example, it is much more comfortable for the ego to watch a video without this closer involvement, in a contact in Satsang over the entire weekend or, even more, in person. I remember that at the beginning there was resistance, including the name of the channel, called “Master Gualberto.” There was even a videocast in which we talked a lot about this, so if the Master could talk a little more... And after I participated in the first meetings and Meditation was happening, I started to realize, so much so that the Master encourages this self-investigation, how much this movement of thought, seeking pleasure or escaping pain happens in this crazy mind of the “I.” And then, the closer I get to the Master, the more I can study myself, as the Master always brings this, this studying oneself, looking at this crazy movement of being someone. Then, in this sharing of this Grace, in a little while, it is simply seen... this madness is seen and, seeing it, this Silence happens, this Grace... I don't know what to say, because really being without this firm idea of being someone is a freedom that is indescribable.
MG: So, Gilson. For example, you touched on this issue of the word “Master,” and we even have videos here on the channel talking about it. It’s very curious: sometimes people go on the channel and say: “‘Master’? But why ‘Master’?” That expression “Master,” Gilson, bothers. “Ramana did not call himself ‘Master’, and why do you call yourself ‘Master’?” Guys, I've explained this several times. I'm tired, I gave up! When I say “I’m tired,” I mean “I gave up,” I gave up on this thing. When I started sharing this vision, someone came up and said, “You are a Master.” I said, “What's it like?” And then it was very curious, because then someone else came and said: “Master, Master, Master, Master...” And I always, Gilson... approximately about… We have been sharing this vision for 11 years. When we started sharing this and they started calling me “Master, Master…”, I started to reject it, to fight with it, to fight against it, and I said: “Look, please… it's okay, it's Marcos or Gualberto, anything but Master.”
I knew that this wouldn't end up in good things, as it doesn't, because people approach the channel and move away precisely because of that term. And you here, including you, keep calling me Master. I gave up fighting about it. At first, I fought a lot, I complained a lot. There are people who have been close to me since 2013, and they remember that, that I used to fight. And it stuck, that was a nickname that stuck. For me, the expression “Master” is a nickname. A nickname! And a nickname that doesn't help anything, it only gets in the way. People are… because of the prejudice they have with the word “Master,” or they think that I call myself “Master,” to be called this way… In fact, it was the name given to the channel, because it was a nickname they gave to me. Whoever created the channel put it there and argued with me: “No, it's going to be 'Master',” and put it there. So, I gave up, I stopped fighting with this “Master” issue.
But for me, Gilson, there is no such thing. The “Master” for me is like this microphone here: it is almost invisible here due to the color of the shirt. The microphone is like a telephone, for example. The phone doesn't matter at all, it's only what comes out of the phone that's interesting. It's not like this? What comes out of the phone is interesting, whether it's an old phone or a cell phone. The cell phone is of no importance! It's what you hear that matters. This microphone is not important at all, it is what it reproduces that is important. So, this question of the master… The master is of no importance at all! The master is just a figure, a human figure, he is just a telephone or a microphone! The Reality of Being is the only Divine Truth. In this sense, the only Divine Truth is that everyone is a master or everyone is a disciple, or there is neither master nor disciple. There is only God, there is only Consciousness.
So, you can call me Gualberto…some people call me Gualberto, others call me Marcos, others call me Master. I have grandchildren, they call me grandpa. My wife calls me Marcos. She never got used to calling me Master. In fact, on the first meeting, she called me “weird.” Afterwards, I was promoted to “Marcos.” She called me “strange” because of what she said and what she felt. She said, “This man is very strange.” She never called me Master! She always called me “strange” and then from “strange” to “Marcos.” There is no such thing: “Master.” There is only God, there is only Truth!
In this Natural State, you are living your State of Being! So, the speech here is not the speech of a “Master,” it is the speech of this Consciousness, this Reality, this Being, which is You! When there is this contact at this level, we no longer have either Master or disciple. That’s it.
GC: Master, it's funny because, within this human aspect, within the mind, “master” is a title. And I remember that, in the beginning, for me it was also: “How come, ‘Master’?” And then, obviously, after participating in meetings with the Master... it's like the Master said: there are people calling Marcos or Gualberto. When it's someone who self-proclaims so, they get upset if they're not called by their self-proclaimed title: “Master.” And, in the case of the Master, the Master doesn't care: he's “strange,” it's whatever, name him whatever you want, it doesn't make any difference! And it's very beautiful to see.
MG: No, Gilson, there is no… there is nothing like that, Gilson! There is no Master, there is no disciple, there is only God, there is only one Truth! We are the ones who created this nonsense … this separation, this division. This just gets in the way! These names just get in the way! OK?
GC: But, Master… “Master,” again calling “Master.” But let's finish, our time has ended. Thank you for this videocast. And for those of you who are following the videocast: please leave a “like,” leave a comment, which helps YouTube recognize that the content is relevant; and, mainly, for you, for whom what the Master shares makes sense: come to the meetings both online on the weekend – Saturday and Sunday, morning and afternoon – as well as in person.
Master, Gualberto, Strange, gratitude for this videocast.
MG: (laugh)
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