GC: Hello everyone! We are here for another videocast. Once again, Master Gualberto is with us. Thank you very much, Master, for your presence.
Today I’m going to read an excerpt from Joel Goldsmith’s book called “The art of spiritual healing.” In an excerpt from the book, Master, Joel comments the following: “The supreme destiny of each one of us is Divine Peace, when Awakened.” Master, what is your view on this “awakening”? And also, if the Master could talk a little about this “Divine Peace,” this Peace that surpasses all understanding…
MG: The expression “awakening” is a very good expression to signal this State. I have called It the “Natural State”; it is this State of Fullness, Completeness of Being. It is, naturally, a State, by nature... that is why I call it Natural State, too, and I even prefer to call it Natural State than an Enlightened or Realized State: because it is by nature this State, a State of Peace. Not what we understand by peace. What we understand as peace is within this particular vision of a truce between two conflicts.
When, for example, people say “I am at peace with my family,” “I am at peace in my relationship,” they are referring to this truce, this harmony of truce between two conflicts, because they are in peace now and, before that, they were not, and after this “now,” this moment of peace, they will, again, experience conflict.
So, what we know as peace is, in fact, armistice, it is a truce, it is a certain stillness or tranquility between two conflicts. So, this is what people understand by peace. This Real Peace, which we talk about when we touch on this issue of Awakening, is not something that can be defined or described by our experiences. Therefore, it is something outside this model of thinking that we have about peace. So, this is the question of Peace. That is why in the scriptures it is referred to as “the Peace that surpasses all human understanding,” that is, it is a Peace that surpasses thought, surpasses our measures of peace.
Now, I believe that here, in this question that you just raised, the important factor is not to touch on this issue of Peace, because that remains a mere concept. We are very attached, Gilson, to concepts. So, we love hearing lines, words and then we start repeating them without the slightest idea of what that really means. We are stuck, attached to that language, that speech, that expression, that concept, and this becomes a belief. So, it is better that we discover, for ourselves, what this Peace represents, and the only possible way is in Awakening, in Enlightenment.
And this is a language, too, that is foreign to most of us. We talk about spirituality, we talk about spiritual improvement, spiritual growth, spiritual evolution, but we don't address what is truly real, which is the issue of Waking Up, of Awakening. This issue of growth, evolution and reaching levels, as we deal with within this aspect of religiosity or spirituality, is something that needs to be investigated, because we have the idea of an element capable of progressing, of growing, of evolving towards a greater spiritualization or spirituality, a greater improvement.
The truth is that this sense of this “I,” this “me,” this ego that, within religion, in the religious view, is something that grows, evolves, is something that reaches higher levels within this so-called “spirituality,” growing in virtues such as love, compassion, freedom, and also peace.
The truth about this is that this idea of this “I,” this “me,” this ego, this atma, this soul, is that we are facing, here, a set of purely psychological conditioning. The Truth of What we are in our Being is not this atma, in the sense of an “I,” an ego, an identity, a soul that can evolve. The Reality of this Being that we are is the Reality of God, and That does not evolve! The Reality of What we are, in truth, is not born, does not appear and does not die. We believe we were born, we believe we are living, and we believe we will die; and all of this is exactly within this model of dream perception in which this “I,” this ego, this so-called “soul” is found.
All human-life experience is the experience of a dream. The Reality of What we are is not the human reality, it is the Divine Reality. As Divine Reality, all this appearance is a dream appearance. So, in truth, Gilson, we are living a dream, a dream of human existence. In this dream of human existence, we are living this confusion of conditioning that has given formation to this entity that was born – or seems to have been born – and is within this scenario, living its fate, its destiny.
The Reality of What we are... And that is the purpose of these meetings here: to bring this Revelation. Not with words, not theoretically, but in an experiential way. We must have a Revelation of Truth beyond this so-called “birth,” or “appearance,” or “dream.”
So, here we are faced with the possibility of Awakening, of Enlightening. To awaken from what, exactly? From this dream, from this sleep! So, our human condition is a condition of sleep, of dreaming. This entire manifestation is happening within a dream. So, we have a Divine Dream happening and we have the projection of a human dream within this Great Divine Dream. In the projection of this human dream, we are entities separate from each other, we are people who have to obtain, attain, fulfill, achieve purposes, live our lives, and always with this idea of expanding, evolving, and improving. So, this is the movement of the dream, which is actually the movement of desire, of the desire to become.
So, in thought, in this model of dream, of existence, of separate entity, as we see ourselves, “I am this, but I was something else yesterday and tomorrow I will be something different from what I am today, so I am in a process of change. I am someone who needs to become, I need to become someone better, someone special, someone so-called ‘spiritual’.”
But none of this actually holds true, it's just a dream. We are dreaming! As long as this dream is present, this sense of separation, which is of an entity separate from God, from the other, from life, separate from the very thoughts you have, the feelings you feel – notice, this is how this “I” is located within this particular dream – as long as this “I” is present, this sense of “I,” of the ego, is present, of this “me,” we will not know this Truth of That which is Being, which, by nature, is Real Consciousness – and I use the expression “Real” on purpose –, Real Love, Real Peace, Real Happiness.
In life, there is only one thing that matters: that thing is the end of the dream, this particular dream, this particular separate identity, which is an illusion. We know the dream we have at night. For us, there we are dreaming, but here, at this moment, in this waking state, this seems very real to us. And at night, we lie down to sleep and have our deep sleep. So, for us, that dream, when we are here in the waking state, we say that that dream was just a production of thought, it had no reality, but this life is real. That's the point, Gilson: this life, in this waking state, is as unreal as that dream we have when we lie down to sleep and dream.
What is actually happening? The sense of this separate identity, which is the “I,” this movement of psychological conditioning, this illusion of a present entity always seeking new experiences, which is actually the egoic mind, which is the movement of thought, is always projecting itself. Then, it projects itself in the waking state as being an entity present within experiences, this so-called “private life” of this “I,” this ego, and at night, when you sleep, you go into deep sleep, again the mind projects itself and creates a particular world there, which is the world of dream; which is a world, you see, similar to this one. There, you see people, you talk, you work, you have a family… And it's very interesting to notice some things here. There, you are not aware that you are dreaming. Life is very real for those who dream, while they dream. So, the dreamer is living a very real life for him, until, when you wake up, you realize that that dreamer was a fantasy created by your own mind, by your own thoughts, so none of it was real. Then, you come across this life here and say: “This is real.”
When there is this Realization of your Natural State, which is this Awakening or Awakened State, there is an end to this particular dream of the “I,” which includes this vigil state, that dream state that we have when we sleep at night and the state of deep sleep. That is why the Indian Sages call it Turiya, the fourth possible state for the human being, which is the Real State of Liberation. In this State of Liberation, there is truly an end to this confusion, to all this human suffering.
So, when a person Awakens, one leaves this vigil dream, this dream we have at night and this deep sleep. It is not that these states no longer appear in this great Divine Dream. Realize the beauty of this! They continue to appear in this great Divine Dream, but for the one who is in his Natural State, for the one who is truly Awake, he deals with life, he deals with this sleep and this dream without the illusion of someone in sleep anymore. So, he stands before Life as just one Great Dream, a Divine Dream! In this Divine Dream, there is no more suffering, no more problems, no more conflicts, no more contradictions.
This is the end of fear, this is the end of all these internal states that the egoic mind knows in this so-called “human life.” This goes beyond this world – notice – and every experience that the particular consciousness of this center, which is the “I,” can have. In other words, it does not matter this so-called “life,” or this so-called “after-death,” as some call the state after this physical death. This is something very simple: wherever there is a sense of a separate identity, there will be a respective world for this illusory identity to project itself into its desires, fears, conflicts, and experiences.
The Awakening of Divine Truth, the Awakening of your Being, this Spiritual Enlightenment, the Awakening of Consciousness is the end of this condition. Something new is present, and this something new is the end of illusion. It is something nameless, indescribable, like this Real Love that surpasses everything that the mind idealizes as love, this Real Peace that surpasses everything that thought takes for peace... Anything else?
GC: Master, we have one more question within this post-death context, which involves... It's from Iara Simoni, she asks the following: “Hello, Gilson! Hello, Master Gualberto! So, when someone, “I,” ego, claims to be a medium and receives messages from entities, is it the “I,” the ego of another thinker who is not here on this physical planet and that the “someone” identifies with and tunes into? Thank you for your Grace.”
MG: So, Gilson, we are still on the same subject here. Everything we have heard, listened and learned out there about spirituality, is this link that the thinker – which is the “I,” this “me,” this ego, this so-called “soul” – has with experiences. So, these experiences are within this context of the known. Look at an example here: we are having contact via this electronic mechanism. About a hundred and fifty years ago, this was inconceivable, it would just be a work of science fiction, an imagination, and yet this is happening. So, in this world where the dream is happening, what seems impossible today will be possible tomorrow, but everything will continue within the dream.
The work of Awakening, the State of Christ, the State of Buddha, the State of God Realization, your State of an Awakened Being is no longer in the dream. So, here we are not talking about this level of contact, we are talking about something else: we are talking about the end of this dream. Even because, this contact between us, or all this communication – see, all this possible communication between two people, whether you are there and I am here, or whether someone is on this side and the other on that side – will always be a communication at the level of information exchange within the known. So, what I can say about what I have here is within the known, and what you can say to me about what you have there is within the known. And everything that is within the known is within what thought recognizes, therefore, this is still part of the movement of the dream, the movement of time, the movement of the known.
The Divine Reality, the Reality of your Being goes beyond this dream, so all the experiences that someone can have, live, experience, talk about them later, report about them later, clarify or explain, all of this will always be part of what is within the known. The Beauty of the Realization of What we are is outside of that, it is outside of what the mind can store as an experience and share in words, in communications, can place within symbols and images recognizable within thought. The Reality of That which is the Truth of your Being is nameless, indescribable. So, the Truth of Liberation is not continuity within the known, it is not something for the dream, and all these worlds or apparitions, and all these experiences and perceptions, and knowledge, explanations, everything is still within this limitation.
The Reality of That which is Liberation is the end to all of this. So, it's not about being born, neither in this world nor in other worlds; it is not about dying in this or other worlds; it is not about this so-called “life” or this so-called “after-life.” It's all in the dream! Now I just gave you an example: when you wake up from the dream at night, you are faced with the waking state, but in reality, this waking state is still a dream. So, when a person… we believe that one, in fact, died; one is in a dream process. We go from one dream to another dream, but as long as there is this sense of a person dreaming on this side or that side, we will only have descriptions of dream states created by thought, sustained by this particular mind, which is the mind of the “I.” Is this clear?
So, this is what people call communication. Everyone can have a name for it; Some don't use the word communication, they call it mediumship or channeling, but it's just communication, an exchange of concepts, words, experiences within the known. There is nothing extraordinary about this. It's something very natural within this dream, but human beings place enormous value on it. For us, or for most people, this is the encounter with this so-called “spirituality.” What I have called Real Spirituality is the end, exactly, of all this. When there is an end to this so-called “spirituality,” something new and unknown emerges. This something new, unknown, is unnamable. So, it is not about what we call “spiritual,” it is the Natural Truth of the Unknown, which is the Truth of God. Now, having the word “God” well understood, also, not within this context that thought imagines and projects. It is also something outside of what we were taught within this model of religious, philosophical, or spiritualist belief. OK?
GC: Master, it is interesting that, as the Master himself exemplified, in my spiritual search, within various philosophies and studies, what I was most looking for was exactly experiences: a mystical experience, a mediumistic experience, etc. And when meeting the Master, in Satsang – which are these encounters both online and in person with the Master –, the Master comes and reveals that these experiences are totally false, an “I” experiencing X, Y, or Z. And the most beautiful thing is that, in this sharing of Master's Presence in Satsang, something new happens that there is no way to record like this: “Ah, I had an experience X or Y.” It’s something truly out of time, nameless, light and unable to share: “Ah, X, Y happened to me.” It's Grace, Master.
MG: The detail, Gilson, is that these experiences, however rich and deep a human being may have in this world called “spirituality,” even so, the ego is still present, the “I” is still present, and, therefore, internally dissatisfaction, suffering, contradiction, and fear are present. So, the sense of the present “I,” of ego present, however spiritualized it may be, it will still remain present, seeing itself as a separate entity, which is completely false, completely illusory.
So, this is what we need to discover: the Truth of What we are. The Revelation of the Truth of That which we are, beyond this sense of “I” that we demonstrate ourselves to be, that we appear to be within experiences, the Truth about this is God. And when this Reality is present, suffering ends, illusion ends. It is the flowering of Real Intelligence, Real Wisdom, Real Love, Real Compassion.
GC: Perfect, perfect, Master! We have already come to the end. Thank you for this videocast. For those of you watching the video, leave a “like'' and leave a comment; If you are not subscribed to the channel, subscribe to the channel. And, mainly, for those who want, have a real interest in delving deeper into this investigation, what the Master leads us to, in Satsang meetings, here in the video description, in the first comment, pinned, there will be the link to the information-WhatsApp group about these meetings, which take place in the whole weekend, Saturday and Sunday, both online and face-to-face meetings, and even retreats, where we can dive even deeper into this Presence that the Master shares and can, really, investigate this falsehood, to be able to awaken to this Reality.
Gratitude, Master. Until next time.
MG: Ok, Gilson, until next time.
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