GC: Hello everyone! We are here for another videocast. Master Gualberto is here with us again. Thank you very much, Master, for your presence. Master, today I'm going to read an excerpt from Joel Goldsmith's book called “Practicing the Presence.” In an excerpt from this book, Joel says the following: “Our relationship with God, our Conscious Union with God constitutes our Unity with all spiritual beings and ideas.” Master, in your view, what is this Conscious Union with God, this experience with God?
MG: So, Gilson, we have to be careful about this – I mean in relation to this form of approaching that in general we have had until now, in this so-called “search” or “quest” for God. Because we have a language that is somewhat difficult for us to address. Because, first, language is within this model of duality. So, for example, we use expressions like “experience,” “experience with God.” What actually is an experience? We know what an experience is: it is something we have already been through and can report. Now, understand the difficulty, if we went through and can report, it is not something that is now, here. It's something that is already gone.
So, we believe in the possibility of having a relationship with God, as if there were someone here and God there, and we could have a relationship with Him within an experience. Remembering that every experience is just something that already was. We talk about an experience as something that happened. What will be the truth about God and what will be the truth about this “I”? The Reality about God is Indescribable, Nameless, it is not what is found. What is findable is findable by someone and is findable in time. God is not like that! Divine Reality is something that is in this instant, being what It is. Just what It is.
So, this is the Reality of God, and what is the reality of this “I”? This “I” is nothing more than a set of images, memories, and remembrances that thought formulates within each of us about who we are. So, how is this imagination, this “I,” going to have an encounter with God? Let's investigate this further. The Reality of the Revelation of God – since God is this nameless, indescribable Presence, now, here – the Revelation of this Divine Truth is That which is present exactly when this “I” no longer shows itself, when it no longer presents itself – since this “I” is just the past, it’s just memory, it’s just a set of images that thoughts have about who you are.
So, when we talk about a relationship with God, we have to have a careful approach, because you, as a person, cannot have a relationship with God. God is not in time, space and separate from what you are in your Being. And this “you” that you believe yourself to be, is just a character, an imagination of thought. So, what is the Reality of this Truth of God's Revelation? God is present when the “I,” this “me,” this ego, is no longer present. So, the work of Realization of the Truth of God or of Spiritual Enlightenment, of Spiritual Awakening, of the flourishing of this Natural State – which is how I always prefer to call it, although I use this a lot terminology that I just mentioned, because people use it a lot – this Natural State of Being is Consciousness and it is Divine Consciousness.
So, this is where the Truth of your Being is revealing itself. This is not an experience. It's important to say this, Gilson, because people spend their entire lives searching for an experience. Because they see themselves as separate entities in time, in space, and seeing Divine Reality as something, too, to be found and, naturally, in time and space. So, they live waiting to have an experience and when, in fact, they go through some level of emotional, sentimental, so-called “spiritual,” or “mystical” experience, they talk about it as if it were a trophy that they keep. They are just reporting a past experience, a memory record, an image.
What we don't realize here, Gilson, is that when we do this, we are not just dealing with illusion, we are maintaining, cultivating this illusion, which is the illusion of the “I,” because in that moment, it once again, when it reports an experience, when it deals with an experience giving itself the importance of having lived it, it is maintaining its continuity, its own movement, which is the movement that the ego appreciates most, which is to continue within time.
What is the beauty of these meetings, Gilson, that we have? We are investigating with you, here, the end of time, of that time that thought has produced. A time that, by the way, is strictly linked, closely connected to this issue of experience, because experience is what occurs when an experiencer is – the experiencer with its experience. The experiencer is this center of experiences, which is the “I,” the ego; Experiences are memories, remembrances of sensations, emotions, and extraphysical perceptions, which the ego gives great value to.
So, notice how delicate this is, listen patiently and don't get upset with me: all the human beings' search for these experiences is because we want to have something outside this condition of life, of existence – which, truly, I understand: it is tedious, it is tiring, it is boring, it is full of conflicts and problems – and we want to have a special sensation, but all of this still supports the “I.” The good news here is that we don't need experiences. All we really need is to become aware of the Present Silence, of the Power of Presence in this Silence, when the ego, which is the experiencer, is no longer present.
Now, what we're saying, Gilson, is something that, for most people, sounds completely strange, what I'm saying here. Because when this moment is, experience doesn't remain, because the experiencer doesn't enter. So, the Truth of Real Contact with God is at the end of the “I,” at the moment it happens. So, experience, the record, which is the experience for this experiencer, does not remain, because it is not present. The invitation to the Awakening of Consciousness, to the Awakening of your Real Being, of the Divine Reality that you bring, is an invitation to the end of the experiencer with its experience. It is an invitation to end this illusion, this imagination, this future encounter with God. It is the end of time, because it is the end of this model of thought, this pattern of egoic identity present. So, there is something extraordinary, nameless, indescribable, which is not an experience; it is the end of all experiences at the instant, at the moment present.
So, in these meetings you have moments like this, when the sense of “I” is not there. The Silence, the Power of this Presence, of the Revelation of this Grace – and none of this has a name, it is beyond! We call it Power, Presence, Grace, God, but this is unnamable – it is present and no experience or experiencer is left. God Realization is possible, but it is God taking His place, taking His space and discarding this illusion of this present identity. So, it is not about experiences being stored, acquired, treated later as something, as a symbol of success or achievement within this so-called “spirituality” … It is nothing like that! All of this is still part of an illusion, all of this is still part of the continuity of the “I” itself. It becomes more subtle, it becomes more spiritual, but it remains present. So, that's it.
GC: Master, this vision of the Master is very revolutionary, because the Master commented and that is exactly what happened to me: I was a seeker, a collector of experiences. I was always looking for an experience, a, let's say, contact with God, which is feeling peace, feeling this, feeling that – I was always looking for experiences. So, I had some experience, I recorded it: “Ah! I had a good experience, how wonderful!” And then came the desire to have the experience again. And this contact with the Master is beautiful and unique, because in Satsang, which are these meetings, both online and in person with you, Master, I initially found it strange, because the Master never shares past experiences, the Master is always now, imparting this vision you have. And I saw that all this longing that I had for experiences was a suffering, because it was always a desire for one more experience, for one more experience and, by Grace, for this sharing of the Master's Presence, that desire was gone, and now when thought comes bringing memories of one experience or another, most of the time this is seen. Because, in Satsang with the Master, in this Silence, it is not an experience! It’s something very different, because it’s not like: “Wow, I had an experience X.” This happened to me in several meetings, after the Satsang ended and then: “Okay, what experience did I have? What did I learn?” I didn't learn anything! Time simply flew by in a light way, in a way that there was no record of this experience. Can the Master talk a little more about this?
MG: So, Gilson, notice this, people, how simple it is: when you have an encounter with Something that is full of Grace, Beauty and Love, at that moment there is a complete emptying of all this psychological content of identity which is the ego that records. This moment of Plenitude, of Completeness of Being… You are on the top of a mountain and you look from the top of the mountain to the valley below. From the top of that mountain you see a mountain range and a deep valley far below, and some very high clouds. This look, in front of this scenario, for example, you have an instant of Plenitude, of Completeness, where there is a complete emptying of all this psychological content.
In that moment, there is no record, because, in that moment, there is no separation between you and those mountains in the background, and those clouds in the sky, and that deep valley. At that moment, there is no you and that scene. So, there is no you, the experiencer, and the experience. It's just a single instant, a Real Experiencing of that moment in such Completeness, in such Grace, Love, Silence, whatever name we want to give it, because it has no name…. The sense of “I” has been swept away from within you, the ego has been swept away. So, this is a typical example of the Natural State, of the one who lives in his Being, he is outside of psychological time. In that instant there, at the top of that Mountain, you are outside of psychological time. You are outside the ego, you are outside the “I.” At that moment, there is no experience; there is experiencing, but not an experience.
You may, half an hour after you come down from the mountain, or an hour later, or two hours later, remember, have a remembrance of that, but that remembrance is no longer a remembrance, it is an imagination, because it is not a record, you did not manage to record this. We cannot capture this instant, these two seconds, three seconds of impact of Power, of Silence, of Presence. We don't register this; this is outside of what the ego can capture for itself. So, the moment in life, of Presence, of Silence is not recorded. But thought, in its acquisitive model, tries to capture that and wants more. When you are in the presence of someone, of a look, and something happens and your heart, your Being, everything is invaded by a Silence, a Stillness, for a second or two there is no center, which is the “I,” the ego, to make it something for itself. At that moment, there is a complete emptying of this sense of “I.”
If you come across a beautiful face, the look of a child, a bird perched on a tree branch, the sound of a bird singing, listening – for a second, or two, or three – is just listening, it's just this instant, it's just the moment. The “I” is not there, the ego is not there, the experiencer is not there, so there is no record. It is an example of approaching the present moment without the ego. This encounter with the Divine Reality, which is the Reality of your Being, is possible when there is Meditation. And Meditation is present exactly when this emptying happens, at that moment, emptying of this entire model of egoic existence, where, in the ego, the movement of the ego is of acquisition, is of search for some form of satisfaction, of fulfillment, of pleasure, of sensation.
Notice, I just gave an example: there is no pleasure, there is no sensation, there is no search for fulfillment, it is just an instant of emptying the “I,” and, however, an instant of completeness, because nothing is missing, no desire arises, no fear arises, no problem arises, no ambition, no envy. The ego is not there! No thoughts about work, about what is missing in your life, about what is missing, or about what you need to have, because the ego is not there. When thought is not there, there is no thinker. When the one who sees is not there, there is only observing without the observer. Note that when you see from a viewpoint of the one seeing, one likes and dislikes, it is to do something with it. And when it's just observing, it's just observing; when there is only listening, it is just listening. This is Being. So, it is a Natural State of Being.
Meditation is the flourishing of this Natural State of Being. One detail, Gilson, this does not come through practice, this comes as a Real result of Self-Awareness in this instant, here and now. Becoming aware of the movement of the “I” without separating yourself from whatever is emerging at this moment, the sense of separation dissolves, and this Natural State appears in living, in everyday life. The challenge is, in the present moment, driving your car, taking your child to school... These are very ordinary examples that we have here... cooking rice, washing dishes, or in another very simple activity, realizing right now that there is no one, it's just life without the “I,” without this “me.” And when it is just life without this “me,” without the “I,” there is no separation, there is no duality, therefore, there is no problem. There is no conflict, there is no suffering, there is no fear, there is no desire. Discovering your Natural State of Being is Realizing Truth in this instant, which is God, which is your Being, which is the Divine Nature within us.
GC: Master, I see that it is so unique what the Master lives. I see this, mainly, when I am in Satsang and I dive into this Silence with the Master, because, as the Master said, in this Silence there is not a thought of what I need, the thought of a problem. It is a void of complete Peace, of complete Harmony... And it is something so indescribable, unique, that only truly embarking on this Silence that the Master lives to have a glimpse of what this life in complete Freedom is, that the Master lives, in this full Silence.
MG: This is here and now, Gilson, this is the Nature of your Being. This is prior to the appearance of this body in this world scenario. This is why the Sages say that you are neither born nor die, because you are this Silence, this Reality that surpasses everything that thought can describe. Assuming this in this life, in this dream of existence, this is Self-Realization. Assuming this Reality of your Being, the Reality of God, is the Reality of this Silence. The way we can approach this is by becoming aware of this movement, which is the movement of thought, sensation, emotion, perception, without placing an identity present in this movement. To discover the approach to Self-Awareness that requires the presence of this look, this Attention to all this movement that arises.
When there is this Attention, the Truth of Self-Awareness is revealed. In this Self-Awareness, in this Attention, it is revealed That which is outside this model of how our brain has worked due to the social, cultural, and educational conditioning that we receive in this supposed entity that we believe to be. This dismantles this mechanics, this dismantles this mechanism, this dismantles this egoic center. So, the Truth of Revelation, of Meditation, shows itself in this instant. To bring this to each moment, to each instant, to each event, to each way of perceiving, to feeling, to each thought that arises… becoming aware that this entire existential phenomenon does not necessarily require the presence of an identity – which is the ego – to condemn, to judge, to compare, to reject, to aspire to alter or change something.
So, we nullify that identity. It is nullified by the Awareness of this Real Consciousness, this Full Attention. Then, your Natural State is revealed, which is Meditation, which is Stillness, which is Plenitude. The names are diverse, but here we have the Presence of Truth, the Unique, nameless, undeniable Presence that is the Divine Presence, that's it. (laughs)
GC: Master, we have another question about this same subject, from a subscriber to the channel. He asks the following: “Are we the experiencer and the experience at the same time? Sometimes it seems to me that the true “me” is neither of them, but rather something above them that observes them, but I still don't have much clarity on this.”
MG: We're just putting this here for you: experiencer and experience, they are a unique phenomenon within time. That which is constructed within time, disappears within time, has no reality outside of time, so it cannot be Real. So, Reality is not within the known, it is not within time, it cannot be the one who is the experiencer, who sees himself as separate from the experience. Our idea is mistaken, we speak or hear about an “I,” a human consciousness, a personal consciousness, an atma, or a soul… We have different names for this observer, for this thinker, for this experiencer, but it is something that is present along with its experience, with its perception, with its specific and particular way of seeing, and all of this is completely illusory.
There is a Reality outside of all this, and this Reality cannot be reached, described, named by thought. Our approach here is to learn the Art of looking without this observer, seeing without the one who is seeing, perceiving without the one in perception. That’s when it is possible to discover Something outside of perception, seeing, and experiencing. That´s it.
GC: Master, we are already finishing our time and thank you for this videocast. For those of you watching the video, leave a like, leave a comment, including questions for us to bring to the next videocasts. And, mainly, if you are interested, the real interest in delving deeper into this investigation that Master Gualberto brings, you are invited to participate in the weekend intensives, which are the Satsangs, both online and in person and also the retreats where, in this sharing of Presence, we can, in a way, “experience” this Silence – which is not an experience, which is Something completely new, it is Something out of time and indescribable. So, here's the invitation: in the first pinned comment and in the video description there is the link. Master, gratitude.
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