Gilson – Hello everyone! We are here for another videocast, another chat with Marcos Gualberto, bringing us the experience of what this Awakening of Consciousness is, what this Natural State is, what this Spiritual Enlightenment is.
For those who don't know who Marcos Gualberto is, I'll quickly talk about how I met him. I've been on a spiritual quest for many years now, and for the last few years I've focused on the studies of Joel Goldsmith. In the middle of last year, something very strong internally made me move away from my studies, away from the channel, and the study groups as well. I didn't know why, but I soon found out, because a video of Marcos Gualberto appeared on YouTube and caught my attention, because Marcos’ channel deals exactly with this theme – this theme that Joel also focuses on, which is this Awakening of Consciousness, Spiritual Enlightenment. Then, I watched Marcos Gualberto’s video and something caught my attention, not because of what was being said, but because of something that I didn't know what was. I started watching other videos, and more videos, and more videos, and ended up discovering that there were face-to-face and online meetings – which are the weekend intensive Satsangs, including retreats. And then I signed up to participate in an online weekend intensive, out of curiosity, but also because something that is beyond words touched me.
By participating in the meeting, I saw that this something that touched me is something that is really beyond words, beyond thoughts, beyond what the intellectual mind can comprehend, because it is something like a touch of Grace, something that is really out of time and space. By the Grace of his Master Ramana [Maharshi], Master Gualberto had this “awakening” many years ago – more than fifteen years ago, in 2007 –, and today he lives in that State of Fullness, of Presence. And because of this Presence, during this weekend meeting, I was able to receive this State of Meditation, this Silence, this Stillness, which is pure Grace, without words. Since then, I've been following Marcos Gualberto’s work closely, participating in the meetings, and we're already in a series of videocasts – for those who haven't watched the others yet, there’s a playlist with all these meetings.
And whoever feels something beyond by looking into Gualberto’s eyes, get closer to this work, participate in face-to-face and online meetings to be able to “test” what this Natural State is, what this Silence is. I've said too much already, Master. Let’s go to our videocast.
I want to read an excerpt from Joel’s book called “Our Spiritual Resources.” In an excerpt from that book, Joel says: “When we get to the place where we are absolutely stripped of any concept of God, any belief about God or any theory about God, then we are approaching a real experience of God. As long as there is any concept in our minds about God, He is finite, limited and circumscribed, and therefore cannot be God.”
Having read this passage, Master, I would like to ask you: how to go beyond these concepts of God?
Master – Going beyond the concepts of God, that is something that represents you giving up any image you have about God.
This approach, the Real approach to God, is an approach without a concept. Here we are faced with great difficulty, because the mind in us works based on ideas, on symbols, on representations of images. And Truth, which is God, for That to reveal to itself or its Revelation – that which is the Reality of God – is necessarily something beyond these symbols, these images, these concepts. So, our mental approach is a totally wrong approach.
The form of approach that the mind has – that our mind has –, within this model of remembrance, memory, images, symbols, is always within something that is already known; that is, it is always within the boundaries of time itself that thought creates – which is that time I have been calling psychological time.
All the ideas we have are inside memory, which is this psychological time. They are symbols, they are images and representations of what is known. The Divine Reality or the Reality of God is That which is beyond or outside of time and therefore is something free from the known, which is not within the known and therefore is not within the mind. So, our concepts, our beliefs, the images we form about God, this is completely wrong.
If we really want to become aware of the Reality of God, we need to drop concepts, because concepts actually are symbols, they are images; these symbols and images are forms that thought creates, formulates, and that cannot be Reality. So, the approach to God’s Truth necessarily requires that every image, every idea, every belief, to disappear. This means the end of the mind, because the mind, at least the egoic mind, the mind as we know, has to disappear. Therefore, Gilson, the recommendation here is to investigate the nature of the mind, this mind that we know, because it only deals with the known. We need to discover in ourselves a quality of awareness free of this egoic mind.
I have called this egoic mind, because it is the mind that is within a formulation of an identity that has a center; that center is constructed by beliefs, ideas, imaginations, and memories. That center, which is the “I,” the ego, that “me,” is the center, the base of this mind, of this so-called “egoic mind.”
We need another quality of mind. That quality of mind is the mind in Silence, the mind in Stillness, it is the mind empty of all that content which is part of memory, which is part of all that is known. So, this free mind, which is the new mind, which is the mind outside of that sense of “I,” is the instrument we have to have an approach of this Divine Reality. Then, that Divine Reality which, in truth, is our own Being, can reveal itself in that Silence, in that mind freed from that egoic mind, from that egoic mind, from that so-called “egoic consciousness.”
So, the Revelation of God is such that when it arrives, it is present because the sense of “I,” which is the ego, which is the egoic mind, is not there. Now, there’s a point here that I also want to draw your attention to: it’s not an experience, it’s not an experience. Joel puts it as “an experience.” An experience is still always something you keep and can talk about later. So, by understanding the expression “experience,” we realize that the point here is not to have an experience. An experience is a memory that you can recall, remember, talk about to others, and the Reality of God is the Truth of non-mind, non-I, non-ego, and therefore it is not an experience, because no memory remains.
Memory is part of psychological time, and memory is part of the I-identity. It is the egoic mind that has memory and therefore it is the egoic mind that experiences. God is not an experience. God, in reality, is the end of the experiencer with every form of experience. So, this is Something so unusual that when It is present, the sense of “I” is not there, and if it is not, there is no time, there is no memory, there is no egoic mind, and there is no experience or experiencer. The Reality of your Being is outside of time – which is the Reality of God – and therefore outside this “I,” this false center.
What we need is a contact from this new mind, this silent mind, this quiet mind. See: it’s a silent mind, it’s not a mind that has been silenced, it’s important to say that. People want to practice meditation to silence the mind. The egoic mind is synonymous with noise. Mind is never silent.
That mind which is part of time, which is part of the “I,” is by nature noisy, so people try to silence the mind. This is the ego’s own move to quiet the mind. It doesn't work. That’s why people practice for many years, and at the time of practice they have apparently silenced the mind, but the egoic mind itself has silenced the mind, it has temporarily silenced.
I've been saying that the egoic mind is like a little dog you have, he’s restless and you show him a cookie, he stops; you ask him to sit, after being trained, he sits and waits for the cookie. When you hand him the cookie and he finishes the cookie, he goes back to being restless again. The mind is like that. In the practice of meditation, which is when you quiet the mind, it’s the mind quieting down, it’s the mind stilled, silenced, forced into silence. Here I am referring to a Natural Silence, which is born from the self-observation of the mind’s own movement of restlessness, this Natural Silence, of this new mind, of this mind in stillness; and this is possible when there is true Self-awareness – and I have spoken a lot about this. This is possible when there is an approach of true Meditation in practice. It’s not about all those methods and systems of meditation practice out there. I'm talking about something that really brings you closer to yourself through self-inquiry and puts you in touch with this reality of the mind free of psychological time. That’s when you are faced with Silence, and in this Silence, That which is outside of time, which is God, is revealed. So, God takes His place, when the “I” is not there. So, it’s not an experience, actually it’s the end of the experiencer, it’s the end of the experience, it’s the end of the “I.” All right?
Gilson – Master, this vision that you bring in words is very, very, very revolutionary, because what we have most within spirituality, within this search, is an “I” seeking to reach a certain “state,” to reach an experience, whether practicing meditation to silence the mind, or with due practices, but always “someone” wanting to evolve and expand consciousness in order to reach a goal in the future. And Master, with these lines and with his Presence, makes this whole system of beliefs, all these practices, go “down” and inverts them to go towards investigating this “I,” isn't it, Master?
And about this investigation, this self-inquiry, seeing this illusion, could Master talk a little more?
Master – The point, Gilson, is that whatever you do, there will be “you” doing it. See, this will be part of an attainment, of an accomplishment, of an actualization, of a work within the own time. Reality cannot belong to time. For being Reality, it is not something that comes and goes. It is something that is beyond all movement of appearance and disappearance, and therefore the Reality that is God here, which is the Truth of your Being, cannot be realized; It cannot be realized. Who would be there to realize? In fact, there is no such “someone.” That “someone” is a movement in time, it can do anything externally, from the outside, but everything it does will be within the frame of time. God is not such a thing. Truth is not such a thing. So, we are always trying to bring to our own language, and to an adjustment of our desire, intention, volition and motivation, particular, something that transcends desire, motivation, project, and achievement. God is not attainable by the “I.” It is He who shows Himself and takes His place when the “I” is not there, when time is not.
So, the difficulty, Gilson, is that we are trying, with the mind, but That is outside the mind. So, every day a new system and a new meditation practice is created to achieve. This is time. To reach or to get rid of, for that you need time, and here the Reality of your Being is timeless, the Reality of your Being, which is God, is verifiable by the Divine Intelligence itself, by the Divine Grace itself, and not by the “I.” I know it sounds weird, because the main idea is the idea of a “me” to do: this is psychological conditioning.
We believe that we are present here and now, exchanging ideas, you and I. There isn't, there isn't that. There is only one present Reality, that Reality is Consciousness. Here these ideas, words, expressions, and experiences are only in the field of the experiencer.
The question is: can we get rid of this experiencer and enter this Natural State free of the “I”? Because, if this is established as a vision of Reality, and not a belief, it is very clear that here and now, there is nobody. There’s nobody talking, there’s nobody listening, it’s just this one Reality in this game, in this dream. So, we have to tread calmly on this terrain, we need to get rid of this model of belief, of conditioning, especially religious, because in this religious model, there is God outside, even if the thought itself is saying that He is inside, it creates this illusion of “in and out.” From what place do we have the “inside” and the “outside”? From the body? But the body is also just one apparition. Inside who, “me”? But what is this “me”? A set of ideas, beliefs. That is the “I,” an illusion, a fraud.
Here, the contact with the Reality of your Being is the end of that “me” and it is the direct expression of That which is out of time, it is now, here, at this moment. There is no such thing as “someone” to attain. There is the illusion of an “I” to be observed, and if it is observed from that Silence, which is that Presence, that Intelligence, in that free mind that is in Silence – not because it was silenced, as I just mentioned, but because there is Mindfulness in all this movement –, when that happens, the sense of an “I” disappears and so does the experience, and What is revealed is God, because there is only God.
Gilson – Master, for this “I” identity, for the ego, this idea that “I do not exist” is frightening. So, it’s something that the ego comes with all its defenses, beliefs, and concepts to talk about: “But how come? I do exist.” And it goes on remaining in these ideas, in these concepts, in these beliefs. And this process of self-inquiry, in this closeness with you, Master, really – I even commented on some other videocast –, it is this lie that is always perpetuating itself, it is this idea of “someone,” it’s this idea of “me,” it’s this idea of being a father, it’s this idea of being “someone,” and it’s all hypnosis, all an illusion, and seeing this illusion is complete freedom, but this fear of the ego itself also comes up.
Master – Gilson, there is this illusory movement, which is the egocentric movement of this false identity. We do not deny this movement, but it is the movement within the dream, of separation, and it is this movement that is producing and sustaining all forms of suffering for this “me,” this “I.” So, this illusory “I” is sustaining suffering that is very real to itself. So, as long as there is the illusion of a “sufferer,” suffering will be very real for that “me,” for that “I.” But without this illusion of “I,” all this activity, which is the activity of this illusory center – this false center, which is the ego – disappears; and when this movement of the “I,” of this “illusory I,” which is the “sufferer,” disappears, suffering disappears.
Fear – you mentioned the question of fear – is present in a direct relationship with thought. It is thought, with its images for a thinker, which is the “I,” that sustains fear. If this model of thought pattern could be seen without the “I,” this thinking pattern dissolves into Nothingness, then there is no fear. Fear is present for the fearful, suffering is present for the sufferer, illusion is present for the deluded one, and it is the false center that is sustaining this hypnotic, dreamlike condition within this programming of separate identity from Reality, which is God. This is something, Gilson, that requires self-inquiry, true Self-awareness, not what some out there call “self-awareness.” This has to be very clear: when I use that word “Self-awareness,” it is in the sense of investigating the illusion of this “me,” of this “I.”
When there is that Self-awareness, That which is Real shows itself as your Natural State of Meditation, where time is not, where the “I” is not, where the nature of Truth is there, and that is Love, and that is Peace, and that is Bliss, that is Real Spiritual Enlightenment, or Real Spiritual Awakening.
In fact, this language everyone can even dispense with, I would call it the Natural State Free, free in Love, the Natural State, of Wisdom, of Truth, of God’s vision – and it is literal God’s vision, because there is no separation. It is God seeing Himself as the only Reality. In the midst of this dream, where the ego is seeing calamity, confusion, disorder, God Reality is seeing a dream. The vision of God is very unique. It is not the vision of an “I,” of an identity, within its illusion, dreaming and in conflict with all of this.
It’s too weird for the mind to capture.
Gilson – Master, in reality, with the mind it is impossible to reach this “understanding” or “comprehension,” because it is something that is beyond it, and I see for myself, in a journey of many years of study, of reading, including, with meditative practices and in this proximity of this work with you, mainly face-to-face – or also in the weekend intensives –, what intellectually has been studied a lot, tried to be elaborated, being in your Presence, in a little while, something outside the mind happens, there is an understanding here that I could call Grace, it’s God’s Grace, it’s Master’s Grace, Guru’s Grace.
Master – So, that understanding is the real understanding. What happens when real understanding takes place? The end of thought; and the end of thought is the end of intellect.
Intellect is useful in our life and I will tell you what it’s for: comparison, judgment, evaluate, add, divide, subtract, deduce, and conclude. As far as the perception of Reality is concerned, It reveals itself as the vision from the Silence, there is no intellect there, it is a direct understanding. So, Gilson, notice what we're saying here to you: to a certain extent, all the reading, all the studying, has already fulfilled its role there for you.
Reading and study go with you to the point where you realize the logical limit of it, the limit within logic, of what is thus explained. To put it another way: it is possible to perceive a limit of the intellect by the intellect; the intellect takes you to a point where you realize its limit, from there, it has already intelligently fulfilled its work. If you can see the edge of intellect by intellect, that’s as far as intellect can take you.
Here, when we are talking about the Reality of Consciousness, we are talking about Something outside the intellect and therefore outside logic, outside this limitation. Wisdom is not an understanding. Understanding is of the intellect; Wisdom is the revelation born of this Silence, which is present when comprehension settles in. When there is comprehension, Silence is there; in that Silence Wisdom is revealed, or Wisdom is the revelation of that Silence in comprehension. It dispenses with the intellect; it is outside the mind.
The Sage is he who has realized his Self. This Self is like the brightness of the sun and the intellect is like the moon which borrows part of its brightness from that sun. The Sage lives like the sun, not like the moon, although the moon is there fulfilling some role, and that is the role of the intellect, all the brightness of the moon comes from the sun.
The Truth of your Being is Absolute Intelligence which transcends the intellect, which transcends all that capability of this so-called “mind,” when it is sane, when it functions in a logical, sensible way – unlike this mind that we know living complete insanity and the intellect completely jumbled with beliefs, within its so common limitation.
The Reality of your Being is Truth, it is Intelligence, it is Wisdom. In your Being you are the sun, you don't need the moon, In fact, it is the moon that needs that sun, which is your Being. The human being lives within this condition of the intellect, and in the intellect, he cannot realize That which he Is, because what he Is, is outside the intellect.
Approaching through Self-awareness and Meditation brings you closer to the Reality of what you Are, to this Truth, to this Divine Presence of your Being, which is the Sun of Grace, which is the Sun of God, which is the Truth about who You truly Are.
Gilson – Master, our time has come [to the end]. Gratitude! Gratitude for this meeting, for this chat.
For those of you who are watching the video, leave a like, make comments, ask questions. Those who didn't watch the other videocasts, there is the playlist here of the other meetings.
And whoever feels something looking deep into Master Gualberto’s eyes, get closer to this work, come to the online or face-to-face meetings.
Gratitude, Master! Gratitude!
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